Help, Major scales/modes?

[snowtusks]

Hi experts,

 

I'm trying to understand the Major scale and it's modes to get a better understanding for playing leads. I understand that the modes link up using the same notes to allow you to go up and down the fret board. My question, is the modes in there own right scales of there own, I always hear guitarists saying they used a Dorian scale or phrygian scale or one of the other modes as reference to the scale they used, another example would be where I hear alot how heavy metal guitarist use the lydian scale alot for there leads, see how I"m getting confused? In one book I have it says you can use each mode as it's own scale, then I kind of get confused. I see using the C Major (Ionian), starting on the say the 3 Fret (key of G for soloing), I got the impression that if knew what key to play in couldn't I use another mode on the same 3rd fret, stilll be playing in the key of G but using a different mode for possibly a different sound....but then in my mind I'm thinking well then I'd be using one of the modes linked up which would have me using notes from another key? I just always thought that each mode was it's own scale due to the sound that each one gives off, hopefully some of you's can understand what I'm trying to ask, any help would be much appreciated.

[Poparad]

Originally posted by snowtusks Hi experts, I'm trying to understand the Major scale and it's modes to get a better understanding for playing leads. I understand that the modes link up using the same notes to allow you to go up and down the fret board.

 

 

Those aren't modes, those are scale patterns. No matter where you play the notes of a major scale on the neck, it's still the major scale. Playing in a different position or starting on a different note doesn't change the fact it's the major scale.

 

The only thing that links up are the different position's fingering patterns for the same scale.

 

 

My question, is the modes in there own right scales of there own, I always hear guitarists saying they used a Dorian scale or phrygian scale or one of the other modes as reference to the scale they used, another example would be where I hear alot how heavy metal guitarist use the lydian scale alot for there leads, see how I"m getting confused?

 

 

For the most part, they are they're own scales, as they have different uses and purposes. Each mode corresponds to a certain chord type, and only one chord type. The chord is what determines the mode.

 

 

In one book I have it says you can use each mode as it's own scale, then I kind of get confused. I see using the C Major (Ionian), starting on the say the 3 Fret (key of G for soloing), I got the impression that if knew what key to play in couldn't I use another mode on the same 3rd fret, stilll be playing in the key of G but using a different mode for possibly a different sound....but then in my mind I'm thinking well then I'd be using one of the modes linked up which would have me using notes from another key? I just always thought that each mode was it's own scale due to the sound that each one gives off, hopefully some of you's can understand what I'm trying to ask, any help would be much appreciated.

 

 

 

The biggest problem people have with modes is trying to use them where you can't use them. If you're playing a song and it's all in a single key, then it's not the place to play modes. Just play in that single key, and work around the chord tones of the current chord of the progression you are on.

 

Music that is all diatonic to a single major or minor key is best served by simply playing that major or minor scale with it. Modes won't work here.

 

 

Modes come into play when you're dealing with progressions that do not stick to a single key. In this approach, it's a chord by chord basis as to what scale to play over each chord.

 

 

 

There are two ways of thinking about and using modes. First, is to approach them as scales to be used in soloing or writting melodies over an existing progression. This is the use of modes that people are usually referring to when they talk about modes. Almost all examples of modes in popular music and jazz are of this kind.

 

The second way to use modes is to treat each mode as a key center. It's much like writting a song in a major or minor key, only using a different chord as the tonic. Modal progressions are almost always very simple, consisting of 1 or 2 chords, and occasionally three. This use of modes can be found from time to time, but is not as commonly used.

[ThomasD]

I think of modes as different methods of constucting scales for a given key.

Ionic mode (major scale) uses the formula:

tone, tone, half, tone, tone, tone, half to get you

C D E F G A B C

Dorian mode alters the formula to

tone, half, tone, tone, tone, half, tone

C D Eb F G A Bb C

Phrygian is

half, tone, tone, tone, half, tone, tone

C Db Eb F G Ab Bb C

The pattern of dropping the first step and then adding it to the end repeats all the way through the modes.

The important distinction comes in when we address the fretboard. If you are working from a major scale pattern and simply alter the starting note of the pattern you are playing a different mode, but you have also departed from the key that the original pattern actually starts with.

As an exercise sit down with some fret paper and draw out a major scale (Ionic) pattern, two octaves, starting with the root on the sixth string. Now draw out another pattern using the formula for Dorian - starting on the same root string. See - they are similar, but not the same, patterns. Note where the differences occur - if you can remember the modes in these terms (e.g. Dorian is Major with a flat third and flat 7th) then you will have a much easier time of figuring where and why they fit.