What should I improve first: theory knowledge or sense of rhythm?

[Inertiatic_SKS]

I've been taking lessons now for almost 2 months now and my teacher has been saying that improving my sense of rhythm and my right hand coordination will be the one thing that will help me the most as a guitarist, yet, I don't really see where he's going with our lessons yet. We've just been jumping around like crazy. We went from learning an Em Blue Scale to 12 bar blues to doing odd rhythm exercises and I just don't see the coherency in his lessons. He says he wants to help my sense of rhythm, but I don't really see him doing anything to really help it. And also, I want to get better at writing more so than playing, so should I just ask him to focus more on theory or should I continue my rhythm exercises? The thought occurred to me that there's no use in learning theory and trying to play it if I can't play it cleanly or with a good rhythm. Someone PLEASE give me some input.

[Janx]

I would say work on both.

Theory knowledge has nothing to do with rythm (mostly true). I mean that in the sense, that knowing all the scales, circle of 5ths, scales, note positions will not help you in playing in time, or even strumming or picking.

what your brain knows about what things mean, is seperate from what your brain/coordnation knows about playing, and having a sense of timing and rythm.

Basically, you should be learning all the scales and chords you can.

While doing that, you should be learning how to play in time while you practice those scales and chords.

Part of rythm seems to be keeping in time, and knowing how to pick/strum various patterns.

to sum up: To just play a song, you gotta know the notes and chords. To play a song with somebody else, you gotta have rythm and timing. To make a new song or solo, you gotta know scales and theory.

[Dubb]

I agree that you should work on both, BUT I think that if you're sense of rhythm is lacking than this should be addressed first. You're right in thinking that having formidable knowledge of theory isn't going to mean much if you can't play songs with good rhythm.

 

As for the odd rhythm exercises that you don't see the point of... I think you should trust your teacher that these exercises will ultimately improve your sense of rhythm. While you may not see the point, the simple fact is that he has much more experience and knowledge in these sorts of things than you do, so if he says that doing these exercises will help, than they most likely will help, and you should do them.

 

The overall direction and coherency of his lesson plan is another issue. I would suggest bringing up this issue with him to discuss. Tell him just what you feel: that you're having trouble seeing the direction in the lesson plan and that you don't see much coherency in the lessons. You may be surprised how well he actually has it planned out, and he may reveal some of his master plan to you. On the other hand, you may not be; he may admit that you're right in suspecting that he's just "playing it by ear." At that point, he should work towards making your lessons more structured and goal-oriented. If he doesn't, you may want to look for a new teacher.

[Inertiatic_SKS]

I already have a very basic understanding on theory, but I want to take it much further. I'm already well-learned in the Circle of 5ths, my Major scale and I know my Blues scale shapes, but I want to learn my pentatonics, my modes and MAYBE some uncommon scales like symmetrical and ethnic scales.

 

EDIT

I trust my teacher in the sense that he is an extremely talented musician and knows his stuff. He is a music major and has a degree in classical music studies and to add to all that, he has perfect pitch and has a great ear. However, just because he has all of those qualifications, that does not necessarily mean he is qualified to teach. I'm going to discuss his direction when I have my lessons with him this Monday and I want to get a definite lesson plan and kinda set one up.

[Dubb]

I'm going to discuss his direction when I have my lessons with him this Monday and I want to get a definite lesson plan and kinda set one up.

Very good, I think you'll be glad that you did.

[Inertiatic_SKS]

When I had my first lesson with him, I went very in depth with him about what I wanted to achieve through my lessons and I basically said that I want to improve my knowledge of theory and over-haul my all-around technique. I told him I wanted to know enough theory to be able to write a lot easier, but not so much that I was completely dependent on theory to write. As for my technique, I told him that I wanted to learn how to play a lot cleaner, improve my chord fingering and dexterity and also improve my coordination. To even further help him tailor my lessons towards my needs, I gave him a 20 song mix CD with all the bands and guitarists I like to give him an idea of what I wanted to do with my knowledge of theory and playing.

[vote4dicktaid]

A good sense of rhythm is essential to any musician. Many musicians get by without knowing all too much theory, on the other hand...

[Inertiatic_SKS]

I have a very mediocre ear, so I really want to learn theory. Familiarity with theory, scales particularly, will really help your ear from what I'm told.

[Blatti]

What do you mean by "odd rhythm exercises"?

Would you consider the following lesson odd, or would these strumming patterns be easy?

www.scenicnewengland.net/guitar/acoustic/info/strumming.htm

 

Or how about this one.

www.izap.com/~pinnacle/rhythms/r.sixteenths.html

Could you figure out the pick patterns in these examples?

If not, then your rhythm skills need work.

Example 1 goes down up down up.

Example 2 goes down up down.

Example 3 goes down up up.

Example 4 goes down down up.

Example 5 goes up down up.

 

As far as music theory goes, I would consider buying a book. It's hard for the teacher to generate the huge volume of information that you will need. Plus, you won't waste time watching the teacher write things out.

[vote4dicktaid]

What do you mean by "odd rhythm exercises"?

 

 

Well "odd" could simply be opposed to "even", as in even and odd numbers. So, 3/4 would be an odd meter, if I'm not mistaken?

[Inertiatic_SKS]

I don't mean an odd meter or anything like that. Just the media he uses. He'll make me slap my knee to a rhythm and hum the root note of a chord I'm supposed to be playing.

[1001gear]

Maybe your teacher's on the ball, maybe not. He may be trying to sort you out for a more specific program. Impossible to tell from here.
Mediocre ear - now that sets off some alarms. Music knowledge is a must of course but if you can't hear, get to work on it. Listen, listen , listen!

[Inertiatic_SKS]

Let me put it this way: I don't have a bad ear, I just can't write for {censored}. I can distinguish the raising and lowering of pitches, I just can't string notes together well to write songs or riffs.

[flatfacerincone]

It dont mean a thing if it aint got that swing, baby.

 

Like everyone else has said, for good songwriting you need both. I'd say work on your rhythm first though, you dont neccesarily need to know WHY all the chords you're playing work together as long as you know they sound good. And thats all theory is really; explaining all the relationships that make things sound good.

 

Also, as far as scales go, you basically already know the pentatonic. Its the same as the blues scale, only minus the flat fifth. Voila.

[1001gear]

 

Let me put it this way: I don't have a bad ear, I just can't write for {censored}. I can distinguish the raising and lowering of pitches, I just can't string notes together well to write songs or riffs.

 

 

Same thing. Listen, listen, listen.

 

As far as writing, 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration. So 2 months into guitar lessons, I wouldn't be too concerned about it. Tell us more about your situation and goals.

[Inertiatic_SKS]

Same thing. Listen, listen, listen. As far as writing, 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration. So 2 months into guitar lessons, I wouldn't be too concerned about it. Tell us more about your situation and goals.

 

 

When I first started taking lessons, I sat down with my teacher and we set goals for my lessons. Basically, I told him these two things.

 

1) I want to learn theory. Not so much that I become dependent on it, but enough to the point where it will help train my ear and improve my writing skills. I just want to learn some chord progressions and some scales.

2) I want to improve my all-around playing. 'Nuff said.

[Knottyhed]

And also, I want to get better at writing more so than playing.....

HOw can you be good at writing if you can't play your instrument?! You can know all the theory in the world, but its usless if you can't play an instrument.

You can learn theory from a book, so I'd say get a book and ask him about the things you don't understand - hell even ask him what book he'd recommend.

Use your teacher to guide you on the right path technique wise, to assess you and tell you what you need to work on to improve and as a mentor/sounding board. He'll cut out the trial and error, help you improve faster, but there's no magic key to playing guitar that he can just give you. Sounds like it not your teacher jumping from place to place - you are... you're finding the techique side a bit hard and now wonder whether learning theory is going to be the secret to being able to play guitar?

[Inertiatic_SKS]

To address the playing/writing statement I made, I don't want to be an incredible shredder or anything like that. I'm looking to just improve my speed and rhythm and work more on my knowledge of theory. Get my drift?

[outforblood]

invest in a metronome/drum machine/or better yet, a drummer. it's all about getting your rhythm down first (right hand picking technique)

after you get good ryhthm the rest should follow, it's all about blood, sweat and sometimes...tears! unless we are talking about sweep arppegios, after 15 yrs. I still have trouble...

[Knottyhed]

To address the playing/writing statement I made, I don't want to be an incredible shredder or anything like that. I'm looking to just improve my speed and rhythm and work more on my knowledge of theory. Get my drift?

Then sounds like your teacher has it covered

Like I say you can work on theory off your own bat... thing is that in a guitar lesson, whilst someone can explain theory to you, the lesson will only be 1hour/or half an hour a week... and what you take away depends entirely on what you can remember and understand in that short period.

I'd suggest learning theory from books/internet and asking your teacher how best to apply concepts or asking him to explain stuff you're having difficulty getting your head around.

I'd suggest starting out with chord theory (i.e. harmonising scales, how chords are built from scales), the circle of 5ths/notes in the scale and then maybe study modes. Also learn the notes on the fret board as it'll make applying what you learn much easier.

Personally I'd say ear training is more important than theory to writing good tunes/progressions (not that theory and ear training are mutually exclusive I suppose). Theory can dig you out of a hole, or elimate the guess work, or help you transpose, but when I write a chord progression I *tend* to chuck theory out the window and try to find chord voicings that lead into each other - basically finding chords that have a melodic movement between each other. Sometimes you can find a chord progression will sound great voiced one way and crap if you voice it differently. Once I have something I'll analyze it so that I can play over it... 9/10 times obviously what i have is mostly diatonic with the odd borrowed chord.

What I'm basically saying, is that to me at least, theory is a song writing tool and helps you understand/embellish what you write. I'd be interested to know how other people approach it.