Using arpeggios tastefully and musically

[oldschoolshred]

Lately I've been practicing a lot of arpeggios in my solo playing, swept or w/ string skipping, and they're sounding pretty fast and clean but now I want to focus on using them musically. I tend to fall into using them just technically and my band mates are starting to look at me like I'm a show off, but I can tell they're not really enjoying it. I'd like to blend them with a bluesy lick now and again and have them form part of my emotional language, rather than be like doing 100 pushups in three minutes.

[jeremy_green]

One nice way to use them is to bridge between positions. So if you are playing low on the neck use the arp to get you up higher. Or don't use the whole thing. Do it in triads. Up one, down another, up another, that type of thing stitching them together. If you play them always top to bottom, the whole thing, it will pretty much always sound like a drill

[mosiddiqi]

What Jeremy said.

 

Also, I find that if you use arps to suggest a different chord extension or harmony..they sound less mechanical..so for example, use an Emin arp over a CMaj chord for a cool CMaj9 effect...tons of options there.

 

With regards to what you said about making them "part of my emotional language"..I think the answer to this is that you have to HEAR it. You say you can play the arps nice and clean and fast...all good..but can you hear them away from the guitar?..or are they just "shapes" you know really well?..familiar patterns that your fingers can grab?...'cos to be emotionally invested in what you play, I think there has to be a deeper connection...which starts with hearing the sound of the arp in your head clearly BEFORE you play it, and that meaning something to YOU.

 

I'm turning into a hippy.

[jeremy_green]

Mo the METAL hippie!

[oldschoolshred]

Good stuff guys, thanks.

[girevik]

I fooled around with "Cello Suite #1 Prelude" and "Solo Violin Partita #3 in E Major" by JS Bach, though I admit have yet to be able to play either piece in its entirety on the guitar (did the entire Prelude on viola a few times). Bach's music has many, many great examples of stringing arpeggios together into tasteful and eminently musical phrases. Writing your own "arpeggio etudes" on paper - away from the guitar! - will probably also help. This forces you to use your ears more. I'm comfortable writing in standard notation, but you could try tab if that's more comfortable for you.

[oldschoolshred]

 

I fooled around with "Cello Suite #1 Prelude" and "Solo Violin Partita #3 in E Major" by JS Bach, though I admit have yet to be able to play either piece in its entirety on the guitar (did the entire Prelude on viola a few times). Bach's music has many, many great examples of stringing arpeggios together into tasteful and eminently musical phrases. Writing your own "arpeggio etudes" on paper - away from the guitar! - will probably also help. This forces you to use your ears more. I'm comfortable writing in standard notation, but you could try tab if that's more comfortable for you.

 

 

You wouldn't happen to have a guitar tab for any of those Bach pieces would you?

[BydoEmpire]

I learned Paganini's Caprice #5 and there are a couple cool arpeggios in there I use all the time now. I play them forward, backwards, combine pieces of them together, start/end on different notes in the arp, play it starting on different strings, play them using triplets and eighth notes, etc. One thing I've heard over and over is that you're better off learning a few things, but a hundred ways to apply them, than you are learning 100 different arpeggios but you can only play each one the exact way you learned in the same song. I think that's a key for using them tastefully.

[girevik]

 

You wouldn't happen to have a guitar tab for any of those Bach pieces would you?

 

 

I have tab for "Cello Suite #1 Prelude" in the book "JS Bach For Bass". You could probably play it verbatim on guitar, since the 4 lowest strings are the same tuning as bass, just an octave higher. I keep forgetting I own this book - I've been meaning to donate it to Girls Rock DC or something.

 

I didn't use tab to learn this piece on viola. The viola is not tuned like guitar/bass, and there's no frets! I used instead the Suzuki Viola School Vol. 5 arrangement, which is in standard notation.

 

I don't have tab for "Solo Violin Partita #3". Maybe it's online somewhere. Honestly, you're better off learning by ear than using somebody else's tab, which might have mistakes. Imagine putting in some woodshed time, only to find out you've been playing it wrong the whole time because of somebody else's screwup. I was inspired to try that piece by this video:

 

Really, you're better off getting slowdown software like Amazing Slow Downer or Transcribe! and using that to slow down a recording/video of this piece, and writing out the tab yourself. It will exercise your ear more, and engage your aural memory instead of just your visual memory, which will be very useful for understanding how Bach's lines artfully flowed from arpeggio to arpeggio (and wove in scale passages too).

[jeremy_green]

This may help

 

[video=youtube;zYTYZGoLuSg]

[jeremy_green]

Not to hijack a thread or anything (seriously that is not my intent). But this is just a perfect example of a piece that could be used as a warmup in place of those stupid 1,2,3,4's. If you used pieces of this prelude instead BOTH hands would be seriously warmed up AND you would have usable chunks of actual MUSIC. If it was memorized it would become equally brainless ...

 

The older I get the more stupid I find that drill that EVERYONE teaches. I am guilty because I used to too.

 

Sorry oldschool! Back to the regularly scheduled thread.

[oldschoolshred]

 

Not to hijack a thread or anything (seriously that is not my intent

 

 

Actually this thread is giving me some great homework dude.

[3shiftgtr]

Sometimes it is simple. Sweeping is just too easy to do once you get it. It's like tapping. It is so easy to be cliche. Triplet taps and 5 string sweeps with a hammer pull on the high string are just staples of that style and sound a bit contrived after a while.

 

Try alternate picking your arpeggios. That slows them down and makes each note resonate with a bit more purpose. It is easy to think of some sweep shapes as 1 thing, as opposed to the notes that are in them. Then practice improvising with nothing but arpeggios. Put a jam track on and just jam with arpeggios only and alternate pick them all.

 

Now, all of this is for naught if you can cleanly alt pick arpeggios like in this tune:

 

[video=youtube;FsxZWE7Lgx4]

 

He slows it down in the middle and that is a great example of playing melodically with only arpeggios. And all this talk of Bach in this thread, made me think of this cuz it is totally Bach inspired.

[gennation]

Check out the intro to Sir Duke by Stevie Wonder, sounds killer and is nothing but simple arpeggio's.

 

Or the intro/main guitar theme from this Orchestra Baobab tune...beautiful use of arpeggio's...Abm->Dbm->E->Eb7 if I remember right.

 

aE6aCm41aPU

[SnowViking]

As with above, stick 'Bach Cello Suite tab' in google.

 

The prelude in G major is a great place to start - primarily because it is a stunning piece of music and is quite simple to learn! This is usually played on a classical guitar in D major with a drop D. There a is a wealth of stuff in there that possibly transposes to the electric guitar, i.e. single note runs/arpeggios. I'm not so sure the lute suites work on the electric although the Prelude in E major is always a show stopper.

 

Also add - look for the tabs with the least amount of open strings - that way you will get to practice your scales and arpeg's and not sit at the lazy end of the guitar (below the 5th fret).

 

It took me 2-3 months to learn the Courante from 1007 / Gmaj on the classical, but it was worth it. I'd like to try it on the electric. Also listen to it played on the Cello:

 

Here's Yo-Yo Ma playing it:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e05vCys-0Ac&feature=related

[oldschoolshred]

 

As with above, stick 'Bach Cello Suite tab' in google. The prelude in G major is a great place to start - primarily because it is a stunning piece of music and is quite simple to learn! This is usually played on a classical guitar in D major with a drop D. There a is a wealth of stuff in there that possibly transposes to the electric guitar, i.e. single note runs/arpeggios. I'm not so sure the lute suites work on the electric although the Prelude in E major is always a show stopper. Also add - look for the tabs with the least amount of open strings - that way you will get to practice your scales and arpeg's and not sit at the lazy end of the guitar (below the 5th fret). It took me 2-3 months to learn the Courante from 1007 / Gmaj on the classical, but it was worth it. I'd like to try it on the electric. Also listen to it played on the Cello: Here's Yo-Yo Ma playing it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e05vCys-0Ac&feature=related

 

 

Ok I took the advice on this thread and am learning Bach's Cello Suite #1 in G. Honestly it doesn't really add to my repertoir of arpeggios I feel I can use in a rock solo context, but it's still a beautiful piece of music and it'll probably make me a better guitarist.

 

The video posted by Steve Morse is more useful for rock soloing and I plan on giving that a go too. The other piece, by the guy with the southern accent is just too difficult for my level at this point and the one by the African/Brazilian group is too basic, although the song itself is really good actually. Plus it's a rhythm arpeggio, not a lead one that I'm looking for.

 

If anybody has anything perhaps similar to that Steve Morse video or maybe a breakdown of some arpeggios that cover large segments of the fretboard that would be great. Thanks.

[Gaetano Paul]

 

 

 

cool tune!

[girevik]

 

Ok I took the advice on this thread and am learning Bach's Cello Suite #1 in G. Honestly it doesn't really add to my repertoir of arpeggios I feel I can use in a rock solo context, but it's still a beautiful piece of music and it'll probably make me a better guitarist.

 

 

To really get something out of this piece (and any classical piece), you need to investigate why the arpeggios in this piece are sequenced as they are. Notice for example, the C major triad arpeggio that follows the G major triad arpeggio. Why did Bach put that C major triad arpeggio there? One clue is that the C major triad is the IV chord of G major scale harmony.

 

Learning why arpeggios are sequenced the way they are in this piece is key to learning how to use arpeggios more musically instead of just spitting back exercises.

[gennation]

A cool arpeggio line to play over a m7 chord/vamp...

 

 

When playing over a m7 vamp you can interject an augmented type arpeggio starting on the m3 of the chord.

 

For instance, over an Am7 vamp you'd use the C+5add9 arpeggio, play it as straight 8th or 16th notes and it gives a nice angular sound with the augmented triad in the arp:

 

 

E-----------------------------7--(5 or 8)-- = this note can be the resolution to either the R or m3 of the chord

B--------------------------8---------------

G--------------4--5--7--8------------------

D-----------5------------------------------

A--3--5--6---------------------------------

E------------------------------------------

 

 

This is an arpeggio that is created using the notes of the A Dorain and A Blues combined...it used the m3, 4, b5, b7, and 9.

[gennation]

Get familiar with the Super Arpeggio's:

 

This covers G, Gmaj7, Gmaj9, Gmaj11, Gmaj13, Bm, Bm7, D, D7, F#mb5, F#m7b5, Am, Am7, C, (partially) Em:

 

E-----------------------3---------

B--------------------5------------

G--------------2--5---------------

D-----------4--------------------

A-----2--5------------------------

E--3------------------------------

 

 

This covers F#mb5, F#m7, Am, Am7, Am9, Am11, C, Cmaj7, Cmaj9, Cmaj#11, Em, Em7, Em9, G, Gmaj7, Bm, (partially ) D:

 

E-----------------------2---------

B--------------------3------------

G-----------------4--------------

D-----------2--5------------------

A--------3-----------------------

E--2--5-----------------------------

 

 

Each of them take into account every Diatonic arpeggio in the Key of G Major/E Minor or any derived Mode.

 

This is only in one position of the G Major scale, take this idea and use it the other positions of the Major scale and you'll see every position contains every arpeggio in the Key! Tons of application material here.

[Krank'N]

The problem with arpeggios is that they can sound emotionless. Its clear that they are CONTRIVED and worked out ahead even to a listener who doesnt know the meaning of "arpeggio'. Theres several ways to deal with this . I will often use ornamentation and accents to break up an arpeggio and make it interesting. A sort of "wolf in sheeps clothing". On the other hand, if one really feels a sequence and it just happens to be an arp then all the better:)

[3shiftgtr]

The problem with arpeggios is that they can sound emotionless.

 

They CAN, but so can scales...so can anything. Arpeggios are just a tool. If they sound emotionless it is cuz they are used in an emotionless way, not because arpeggios as a rule sound emotionless.

 

Emotionless arpeggios = NOT a rule

 

Its clear that they are CONTRIVED and worked out ahead even to a listener who doesn't know the meaning of "arpeggio'.

 

This implies that anything worked out ahead is contrived and emotionless. Um... That includes all classical and....wait for it....Coltrane's Giant Steps.

 

I think, and I may be wrong, is that what you are trying to say is that IF you mindlessly regurgitate arpeggio patterns, which happens A LOT in some forms of metal (and any guitar based music, really), it can sound emotionless and contrived. You know, the old 5 string arpeggio with the hammer-pull on the top string? So easy to mindlessly wank a row of those up and down the harmonized scale. So the goal is to NOT wank them, but to use them musically and with compositional intent.

[girevik]

 

The problem with arpeggios is that they can sound emotionless.

 

 

If they are played mechanically maybe.

 

If, for example, you insert a pause between certain notes of the arpeggio, that would change the sound and feel quite a bit. For example, review the first "Comfortably Numb" (Pink Floyd) guitar solo, which make heavy use of major triad arpeggios. A lot of listeners find that solo quite emotional.

 

I actually get a lot of ideas for using arpeggios musically from jazz solos too, and country/bluegrass to a lesser extent.

[SnowViking]

Also to note the thing that differentiates the Bach pieces from everything else is the lack of repetition. Yes there are lots of arpeggios in there, plus runs, trills, and of course counterpoint (this is what Bach was really about), but even more interesting are the frequent shifts in melodic structure. Yes you can use the Cello suites to perfect and regurgitate arpeggios but learn little about musical structure. The music is where it's really at, once you get under the technique.

 

BTW try to learn several of the pieces (or at least the ones that are playable on the guitar) from the Cello suites; there are 6 in total in different keys, each with a combination of a Prelude, Gigue, Sarabande, Allemande, Courante, Bourree, Minuet.

 

I would argue that if you want to learn the top end of music, harmonic structure and technique there are no better composers than JSB. Listen to the Rostropovich recordings on the Cello and remember the ear is as important as the technique.

[Krank'N]

When something is contrived and then learned by rote ,odds are that such repetition will

reduce "emotional content". As Bruce Lee points out in "Enter the dragon" ,such an approach should get your ass kicked! Bach is an excellent example to learn from. I was listening to the "24" as a child before "neo-classical " playing became popular. Bach intentionally left space for individual interpretation and improvisation. One needs to develope a voice in real time to get emotionally involved.