open cords

[time2kill]

I know that the lowest pitch on a standard tuned guitar is the open note (E) on the low E string.

But what is the lowest pitch (basic) open chord?

[1001gear]

HUh?

[time2kill]

Yeah, I know.

I sit around and come up with these questions that I can't answer, so I thought I would ask.

If I was singing, and was only using basic open cords, what would be the lowest pitched "open chord"?

Would I be in the key of E? Therefore F # would be a major second. Or would I be in C? Where E would be a major third?

Make sense? What is the lowest pitch open chord?

[vman4639]

I would say E since that is the lowest tuned open string. However, you could drop D or drop C and work out a lower open chord.

Edit: You can always invert other chords that have an E in them...

[The Burninator]

A chord doesn't have "a" pitch, if there's only one pitch then you're playing unison, not a chord.

For Em7 you have to fret the 5th string at the 2nd fret and you can leave the other strings open.

I think that if you want to use the lowest notes available on each string to play a simple chord ( i assume simple means X, Xm, X7, Xm7, Xmaj7) then that is the chord to play.

If you want to play any simple chord with the lowest note available (open 6th string) then E is the major 3rd of C, the minor 3rd of C#, the 5th of A, the minor 7th of F# and the major 7th of F.

E is not necessarily lower or higher than any other note. If you're not near the limits of the frequency range that is audible to the human ear than each E (for example) will have a D that is lower and a D that is higher (for example) than it.

[time2kill]

That's kind of what I was thinking, but I was confusing myself every time I tried to think it out.

Thanks.

[1001gear]

Ok open E is the lowest open chord because E is the root. If you played an open C chord and strummed the low E as well, you might be able to consider the C as a lower chord because the root would have to be a third below the E. An A chord played in the same manner would be even lower. So on and so forth. This is hype mostly. I'm sure Jon or Jed could clear or dispel that.

[The Burninator]

 

Originally Posted by 1001gear

open E is the lowest open chord...you might be able to consider the C as a lower chord...An A chord played in the same manner would be even lower.

 

 

Originally Posted by The Burninator

A chord doesn't have "a" pitch, if there's only one pitch then you're playing unison, not a chord...If you're not near the limits of the frequency range that is audible to the human ear than each E (for example) will have a D that is lower and a D that is higher (for example) than it.

 

...

[1001gear]

 

Originally Posted by The Burninator

 

Originally Posted by 1001gear

 

open E is the lowest open chord...you might be able to consider the C as a lower chord...An A chord played in the same manner would be even lower.

 

 

Originally Posted by Burninator

 

A chord doesn't have "a" pitch, if there's only one pitch then you're playing unison, not a chord...If you're not near the limits of the frequency range that is audible to the human ear than each E (for example) will have a D that is lower and a D that is higher (for example) than it.

 

...

 

Not quite.You're referring to some obscure harmonics and I'm referrring to chord inversions. See it's just a technicality where an A chord could contain the low E but also the A root below. Theoretical nonsense but closer to what the OP was getting at.

[The Burninator]

I did not fully understand your posts.

How do you decide if a chord is lower or higher than another?

Let's take the C and E chords for example - if you strum all six strings then the two chords span across the same range - E2 to E4, so which one is lower and which one is higher?

[1001gear]

It's hypothetical. Presuming root position, the 'guitarist' answer to the question would be open E. The A/E ( my example ) is in second inversion and with the A string sounding, you'd hear THAT as the tonality and the open E triad would tend to sound lower - at least to the musically brainwashed. The C/E (first inversion) could also be considered lower. I just postulated (I'm getting funny there) that if we fudge and assume a triadic root, the C and the A triads could be considered lower than open E. Theory is that way except it should be less delusional and make a _little_ sense.

[Sandy Cheeks]

The bass E string on a guitars plays E2 (about 82 Hz).

[Jed]

For the life if me, I can't figure out what time2kill means by "lowest pitch (basic) open chord".

The question itself means nothing to me. Chords don't have pitch. Voicings are another matter.

[jonfinn]

Can you answer these questions for me?

-What specifically is your definition of "Open Chord"?

-When you say "lowest pitch", does that mean the root of the chord?

-Why do you ask? What piece of information are you looking for?

[time2kill]

I didn't realize it when I made the post, but after reading the replies, I can see its not part of music theory.

I was thinking about "open chords" from a beginner's point of view. You know, the first chords we all learned? The C chord, the E chord, the A chord, etc.

Say for instance, I was going to play a simple 3 chord song around the campfire. Perhaps I know a few of them that start on different chords.

Now let's say I was going to try to sing along with them. But with an untrained voice (and ear I guess), I can't sing high notes. Which chord would I want to start with?

I guess I am talking about the key and not the pitch.

As was mentioned, the keys kind of go around in a circle. (there is a D lower than C and a D higher than C.

The more I write, the more I seen to confuse myself.

If I'm playing an A barre chord on the fifth fret, it is easy for me to see that the G barre chord on the 3rd fret is two half-steps lower. Following that logic, it would seem that open E chord is the lowest (tone?).

Does that mean that the open G chord is two and a half steps lower than the open A chord? And if it does, than what is the lowest open chord?

Or is this another one of those things that I should stop spending time worrying about? (like that time when I couldn't figure out why there is only a half step between the B and C note (E and F)?

[Sandy Cheeks]

So, you're saying you have a deep bass voice and you're wondering what key would be the lowest to sing in? There is no lowest key, they go in a cycle. You keep going down by changing registers.

[Jed]

 

Originally Posted by time2kill

I didn't realize it when I made the post, but after reading the replies, I can see its not part of music theory.

 

Not so quick. Your question may well be all about music theory, it just that the terms you used are confusing as if your understanding of the subject matter may be incomplete.

 

Originally Posted by time2kill

I was thinking about "open chords" from a beginner's point of view. You know, the first chords we all learned? The C chord, the E chord, the A chord, etc.

 

Reference Jon's first question: "What specifically is your definition of "Open Chord"? "

The common definition of "open chord" is a voicing the utilizes open strings. Is that what you mean by "open chords"? If so then under your definition are these voicings NOT moveable?

 

Originally Posted by time2kill

Say for instance, I was going to play a simple 3 chord song around the campfire. Perhaps I know a few of them that start on different chords.

Now let's say I was going to try to sing along with them. But with an untrained voice (and ear I guess), I can't sing high notes. Which chord would I want to start with?

I guess I am talking about the key and not the pitch.

 

This part makes sense. It's a common issue that all singers have to address sooner or later.

 

Originally Posted by time2kill

As was mentioned, the keys kind of go around in a circle. (there is a D lower than C and a D higher than C.

The more I write, the more I seen to confuse myself.

 

This is the part that confused me. There is no lowest key or highest key. There are lower and higher registers, but not lower or higher keys.

 

Originally Posted by time2kill

If I'm playing an A barre chord on the fifth fret, it is easy for me to see that the G barre chord on the 3rd fret is two half-steps lower. Following that logic, it would seem that open E chord is the lowest (tone?).

 

Are you calling the A barre at the 5th fret an "open chord"? I would call that an A major voicing since the whole form / structure can be moved up or down the fretboard to create any of the major chords (all 15 possible major chord names)

 

Originally Posted by time2kill

Does that mean that the open G chord is two and a half steps lower than the open A chord? And if it does, than what is the lowest open chord?

 

The G barre voicing is two steps lower than the A barre at the 5th fret. Again, do these fit your definition of "open chords"?

 

Originally Posted by time2kill

Or is this another one of those things that I should stop spending time worrying about? (like that time when I couldn't figure out why there is only a half step between the B and C note (E and F)?

 

There nothing wrong with questions. You should keep asking about anything that you don't understand. Just try to bear with us as we wrestle to find common language and a common frame of reference.

cheers,

[time2kill]

 

Originally Posted by Jed

.... There is no lowest key or highest key.

There nothing wrong with questions. You should keep asking about anything that you don't understand. Just try to bear with us as we wrestle to find common language and a common frame of reference.

cheers,

 

Thanks for your patience and understanding. Apparently, there are huge gaps in my knowledge of music. I've been searching the internet trying to figure out where I went wrong and what to do to correct it.

I wasn't trying to say that barre chords are open chords. I was trying to use the barre chords to demonstrate the way I felt one chord was higher or lower than another chord. (which is obviously wrong)

If I play an A bar chord at the fifth fret, then play the G barre at the third fret, then play the F barre at the first fret, it SOUNDS to me like the A chord is higher than the G chord and the G chord is higher than the F chord. And I then felt if this were true, then the same thing could be said about the open A, G, and F chords.

Apparently, no one else hears it that way.

So yes, I am missing something. I just am not sure what it is that I don't know or how to fix it. Any suggestions?

[JonR]

 

Originally Posted by time2kill

If I play an A bar chord at the fifth fret, then play the G barre at the third fret, then play the F barre at the first fret, it SOUNDS to me like the A chord is higher than the G chord and the G chord is higher than the F chord.

 

That's exactly right.

 

Originally Posted by time2kill

And I then felt if this were true, then the same thing could be said about the open A, G, and F chords.

 

It can, at least in terms of their roots. But as open chords, the voicings are different: some notes are higher, some lower.

An open A chord can have a low E on the bottom, below the lowest G or F.

 

Originally Posted by time2kill

Apparently, no one else hears it that way.

 

Well we hear the same things you do, although maybe we hear in a different way .

 

Originally Posted by time2kill

Now let's say I was going to try to sing along with them. But with an untrained voice (and ear I guess), I can't sing high notes. Which chord would I want to start with?

I guess I am talking about the key and not the pitch.

 

This seems to be your main issue, but you're asking the wrong question.

Your voice has a certain range; there is an upper and lower limit. A song's melody also has a certain range. To sing that song, you need to find key where its range sits within your range.

NB: the range of a song has nothing to do with its key. The keynote can be anywhere within the range of the song.

Take "Happy Birthday". The range is one octave, and the lowest and highest notes of the tune are both the 5th of the key. Eg, if the key was C, top and bottom notes are both G. It happens to start with the lowest note (G) on a C chord. If you can sing a low G, and the G an octave higher, then that key © would be suitable for you.

(I'm assuming your voice has a range of an octave or more. Most people's voices do, although untrained voices may not go much wider than an octave.)

A different song might have a similar range (G-G) but be in the key of G, or maybe D. It's the song's range that matters, not its key.

If, in Happy Birthday, you found that low G was uncomfortably low for you, you could raise the key, say to D. The vocal range would then be A-A. Obviously the higher you raise the key, the more likely it is you won't be able to reach the top note.

The common scenario (for untrained male singers) is that the key of a song needs to be lowered. Rock songs are typically sung by high-voiced singers, because high male voices communicate passion and intensity. But we're not all Robert Plant or Axl Rose...

If your voice is especially low (bass or baritone) you can sometimes sing a song an octave down from its original key. Ie, you can keep the original chords, but sing much lower. (Of course you won't then communicate the high intensity of a Robert Plant, more the low sexiness of a Leonard Cohen.... see, it's not all bad news... )

Take "Hey Jude" (good campfire song ). The original is in key of F, and its range is a little over an octave, from E to G (not counting the higher screaming bits at the end!). On guitar, that's these notes:

--3------------------- high G

----------------------

----------------------

--2------------------- low E

----------------------

----------------------

Now, very few men can get up to that high G! (Paul McCartney is a natural tenor, and not many men are.)

A bass singer would find that a lot easier an octave lower:

----------------------

----------------------

--0------------------- high G

----------------------

----------------------

--0------------------- low E

He could then sing it in the same key (F) as the original, with the same chords.

But (again) not many men can get down to that bottom E. So the average guy is going to want to raise the key (from the octave below Sir Paul).

How you find that key is find what the highest note is you can comfortably sing. That will have to be the top note of the song.

In this case, the top note of the song is the 2nd degree of the scale. So if you find your best high note is (say) B (open 2nd string), that means your ideal key will be A. (Assuming you can hit the lowest note, which would then be G#, fret 4 on low E.)

You then have to transpose all the chords.

You might sometimes find the ideal key is a tricky one on guitar. Eg if your good top note is C, that makes the key for Hey Jude Bb. Not easy! You could of course drop it just a half-step to A to make it easier on guitar, if that's still OK at the bottom end for your voice. Or you could use a capo on fret 1 and play A shapes there, which sound as Bb. Or a capo on 3 and play G shapes, which also sound as Bb.

(As you may guess, a capo is your friend here...)

This sounds like an incredibly complicated process to go through, but experienced singers quickly get used to what they can and can't do; they know their range, and they know how to transpose chords (or use a capo to keep the same chords).

[Sandy Cheeks]

^^^ thorough explanation, Jon. Few of us are that patient!

[time2kill]

 

Originally Posted by Sandy Cheeks

^^^ thorough explanation, Jon. Few of us are that patient!

 

Yes, excellent post JonR. Thank you so very much. (I'm actually looking at the Happy Birthday song.)

But everyone who posted was also helpful. It think it takes a certain amount of patience to even post. It certainly takes some effort and I appreciate it.

Let's see what I come up with in a couple of days.

Thanks.

[The Maestro]

It's a zen question meant to induce deep contemplation. Like "what is the color of futility?"

[Lutz Richter]

I think your real question is something different. I guess you want to know what notes are available to sing over a certain chord. You should not worry about if the chord apperars high or low on the guitar (you can play any chord low or high). What you should know is what notes are in the chords. For example you play a progression ||: Em | D :||

The notes of Em are: E, G and B. The notes of D are: D, F# and A.

As you see, there are many options, you can go to higher notes or to lower notes... whatever you want...as long as the notes are in harmony with the chord. And of course you can use all the other notes in the key too, with some restrictions... but the chord notes are the strong ones to lean into.

[speechless]

Alll 6 strings, played open: Em11

BAM

[Sandy Cheeks]

I think your real question is: who was Benjamin Harrison's vice president? It was Levi P. Morton.

What America needs today is an executive team with epic facial hair.