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Need some effects advice


leevis

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Hi All

I wonder if someone can help me. I am a bedroom guitarist and normally play guitar through my iMac using a variety of units. I started with a Line 6 Guitarport, then moved on to the Line 6 UX1 and now I am mostly using a Boss GT-001. I also own a POD X3 Live and various amps etc but i really enjoy being able to plug into the computer via the units, choosing a tone and playing along to whatever takes my fancy.

 

Anyways, i was wondering what everyone else does these days?

 

Is there anything better on the market than what i already own?

I notice there is Guitar Rig out there but is this any good or better than what i am using currently?

 

Just want peoples opinions on my next move

 

Thanks

 

Lee

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man, "better" is always kind of a difficult thing.

I mean there's some technical aspects that could be better like in terms of noise, or weight, or interconnections or latency -- stuff that's measurable

 

but overall, I think if you don't have a deficiency somewhere..like if you are satisfied with the sound you are getting and all that now -- then I'd say you are all set.

 

You could put the cash toward maybe some other things...a different guitar for different sounds (like a 12 string or a sustainiac or an ebow or something.

or a funky effect that it's covered by your normal system - maybe a guitar synth/hex pickup type deal or a vocoder (just some ideas, not saying that's the way to go)

 

I know it's not a direct answer, but it's my thought on the issue - eh, hope it's just a perspective to consider if not an answer answer

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Analog.

 

Most of the members on this forum, like me, have a preference for hardware... and yes, analog for some duties like dirt and amplification. Not sure how many of us are familiar with the software side of things other than Phil. I have friends who keep telling me that software simulations and modelers have caught up with the real thing. But I'm the type who still listens (when possible) to vinyl on vintage turntables through vintage tube amps. The tactile experience still does something for me :-)

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You can download guitar rig 3 for free and simply give it a try. Whether it will work or not as a substitute for hardware is the question. Because you are running it as a live plugin you have to take your computer and interface latency into consideration. I run a dual core computer which I can record massive number of tracks and run as many plugins as I need when mixing. Trying to run a plugin in real time is a whole different story.

 

First thing you want to do is run this small app. http://www.thesycon.de/eng/latency_check.shtml It will give you an idea of your computers latency. Most of my computers come in with a reading of around 120ms. This is the absolute minimum I can run without having the interface drop off line.

 

In reality however I do have to run the latency and buffers higher to compensate for the latency multiple tracks and plugins produce.

 

A plugin like guitar rig is a huge resource pig. I've tried using it on a couple of computers. It can be run as a stand alone or a plugin. As a stand alone its got a built in recorder. I find that a major hassle myself. you have to then import the wave file into a DAW program and build a project around it. If you run it as a plugin you can record directly to a track. The program comes with a number of amp and cab types. I think its got effects too but on my computer loading more then three of these items my program became unstable.

 

There are Many other free amp plugins out there. Some are basic, some are excellent. One called Boogex is a free amp plugin. Its GUI is primitive but it has everything you need to mimic an amp. Its got all kinds of miced cab selections, a parametric EQ , drive and phase adjustments that work very well.

 

LePou makes a bunch of amp head type plugins. I have a bunch of them. Ignite amps is another site that has some excellent plugs.

http://www.igniteamps.com/en/audio-plug-ins

 

The amp cab emulator is excellent. I use it all the time mixing. It will take a DI track you've recorded with a hardware effects unit and give the track a miced amp sound. Its got a short delay adjustment which will add the kind of space and depth to the track you'd get micing a cab.

 

Theres another called Mercuriall that lest you select different cabs sizes on the left and right channels to emulate recording two different amps. When I record the band I typically record two guitar amps so I'm used to having this flexibility mixing. This plugin does a good job emulating the same thing. You can select different cab sizes and types on the left and right.

 

Also noteworthy is you can download cab impulse files the same way as you'd download impulse files for a convolution reverb plugin. This provides a huge library of cabs miced up in many different ways. Its excellent for mixing when you're simply board with the same old tones you get recording direct. Adding different cabs, mic types, angles and distances are excellent tools for livening up an otherwise boring mix.

 

These cab plugins could be used after an amp emulator. Many of the amp emulators are 100% dry which is almost as bad as plugging straight into an interface and recording with no hardware effects at all.

 

Its not my preference to use any of these as substitutes for actual hardware. I use them mixing tracks but they simply don't cut it for me as a substitute. First my computer latency is too high so I don't hear the effect looping back to the speakers right away. If I tried to track with them its like playing through an slapback echo set to 100% echo. You hit the strings and hear the sound afterwards. There's no way in hell I can get my notes in sync with the beat that way.

 

Maybe if you're running a quad core computer running 64 bits, SS drives, a butt load of memory, and a thunderbolt interface the latency might be low enough for me to track with these kinds of plugins. I have a new laptop that has all of those features I'll be using as a portable DAW. If it succeeds using such plugins I'll let you know. Its not likely to change the hardware options I have.

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I'll add that I've used hardware based direct recording since the 70's so I have allot of experience with the technique. I used reel to reels back then and I'd use guitar pedals run into a pair of echo units and set the echoes for different delays on the left and right to get some fabulous sounding concert sounds. The space echo also had reverb and the units did a good job converting instrument level signals to line level. I'd split the signals with a stereo chorus too so I'd get motion between the left and right sides which could be monoed without phase issues.

 

Later years I bought a number of rack guitar preamps and multi effects units. I still have many of those and still use them. The one Boss preamp has stereo effects sends that intergrate with the preamp and I'm able to insert any kinds of pedals and effects I want. I have an older ART SGX 2000 unit which was state of the art back in the 90's with a tube preamp, a mono and stereo effects send and it allows up to 11 effects to be run at once. I even have the midi controller for it which has dual expression pedals.

 

Lately I been running some smaller multi effects pedals. They have gotten so much better these days and have built in amp/cab emulation so I don't have to be worried about the harshness you get recording direct. The Digitec RP150 even has a built in USB interface for recording. The effects are pretty good and though I'm not a huge fan of Digitecs drive settings it can be set to do some nice things recording direct.

 

The other I bought recently is the Vox Stomplab. They really knew what they were doing when they designed that one. The amp and drive emulations are killer. They not only sound like real amps but they provide the kind of string touch and attack you get playing through a real amp.

Quite an amazing range of tones too. Even the Fuzz effects sound like the real deal. I used the Vox Tonebender the other day and prefer it over the actual pedal I have.

 

the cool part is you can select different amp heads and cabs then gain them up any way you want. The effects are excellent and I can get anything I'd get from a regular amp. There's no way you can tell the difference between the unit and an actual amp being recorded.

 

I have just as many years recording actual amps too so I do have the expertise to compare both. I'm not saying a good amp properly miced isn't a good way to record. To me they are simply different methods of recording requiring different techniques to achieve good results. There are things you can do recording live amps like getting your strings to self sustain which are more difficult recording through a set of studio monitors. Mics also tend to pick up natural room reflections too.

 

My latest experiment is using a pair of cabinet emulator pedals for DI recording. I bought one and loved what it did and figured a pair would be better. I can now for example dial up a 8" speaker on one channel then a 4X12 cab on the right. I'll be adding one of my stereo echo units after these units so I can dial up different room reflections too. My goal is to use a setup that's nearly identical to recording an actual amp in concert.

 

I'll use this chain - Single pedals, > Multeffects unit which separates the signal into two channels > Cabinet emulator pedals > 24 bit stereo echo/chorus unit > two channels of the interface. The multi effects unit itself does a good job creating stereo separation with its chorus and echo but selecting different cab types is a real pain. With the cab emulators after the pedals and using its rotary switch I can dial up different mices cabs in seconds to find the right tones for the current mix. The same with the echo. I have a couple of Alesis and Lexicon units I can use to dial up a hundred different stereo echo/reverb/chorus combinations.

 

The key here is the echo comes last in the chain which is most important. Live you have an amp exciting natural room echo or you mic and amp and run the echo in the PA to produce those grand live sounds. The chain I'm using is the closest you can get to that.

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Most of the members on this forum, like me, have a preference for hardware... and yes, analog for some duties like dirt and amplification. Not sure how many of us are familiar with the software side of things other than Phil. I have friends who keep telling me that software simulations and modelers have caught up with the real thing. But I'm the type who still listens (when possible) to vinyl on vintage turntables through vintage tube amps. The tactile experience still does something for me :-)

 

​For me it seems the digital if kept in the digital realm works. For live work its just missing something, Analog is all I can say. Now for live sound mixing / fx A Yamaha SPX 2000 sounds pretty good. I've used digital preamps into tube amps in small clubs and did ok. There's much to be said IMO about pissed off electrons that just sweeten the audio. light weight power amps (switching power supply's) cut down on a lot of weight but there's a trade off in sound between that and a heavy weight transformer. Even bench specs are better with the SPS but ANALOG still blows it away imo. digital is much more affordable too. so its like MAN! shall I compromise ?

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^^^ I have an older Yamaha GEP-50 I've had for many years. Its nearly identical to the SPX-90 which is well known. Its Reverbs, Echoes and Chorus are very good, especially the echoes which can be adjusted differently for the left and right channels. The drive settings are exceptionally awful. Super artificial and sterile sounding. I was never able to get them to sound good recording or live. I'm sure they've improved on their drives over the years.

 

The quality of the unit is top notch they simply didn't design the drives to sound very good. Maybe they would have sounded better with a Yamaha power head and cab. Manufacturers commonly did that when building unique rack based amps. I have a Rexx preamp which was designed to run with a Biamped power head and cab which has top notch overdrives and EQ control. I use it as a front end drive unit in the effects loop of another multi effects unit and it sounds killer.

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Peavey ReValver 4 isn't a bad option, either. It sounds like you're more curious if there's something you're missing rather than being unhappy with what you've got, and I'd imagine you're just fine. The gear you have isn't really outpaced by the current things to rationalize spending the money to replace them for incremental gains.

 

GuitarRig and ReValver 4 are both fun for just playing guitar (the ACT Combo in ReValver is pretty cool... it let's you import live amp tones with a mic or even guitar tones from albums). In my opinion GuitarRig is fun for the WTF presets and wacky effects, ReValver 4 is a bit more modular and feels more like building a physical signal chain with standard limitations. Both are free to check out, so I'd try that!

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