delay and reverb pedal recommendation

[J.Paul]

Anyone have some suggestions?

I’m looking for a guitar pedal that does both delay and reverb at the same time.

It needs to either have a tap tempo option or a midi option (but doesn’t require both).

 

I want it to take a standard 9v power instead of some exotic 12v-15v-18v

and it would need to be priced under $500

 

 

[WRGKMC]

There's only one pedal I can think of that which might fit that bill. A Rolland Space Echo which lest you run both echo and reverb at the same time.

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RE20pedal?product_id=%7Bproduct_id%7D&adpos=1o1&creative=55282323841&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CMHYlY78qNACFZSMaQodNfUPLg

 

On a real space echo like the one I have you can run the reverb before or after echo. I'm sure these digital versions are similar.

Doesn't seem to have tap tempo but it does let you run an expression pedal. I'm not sure you're saving much real estate over running two separate pedals if that's your goal. You might do better price wise running a separate tap echo and reverb unit.

 

The other option of course is a multi effect pedal. I have one of those Vox Stomplab pedals which isn't much larger then a normal sized pedal. Its got some incredibly good effects. You could easily set up reverb/echo combinations and save them in memory. You could dial up 20 different tap speeds then scroll to the ones you want. I never have much luck with a tap tempo anyway so its not a feature I need.

 

The other effects like Chorus, Tremolo, Pitch Shifting are excellent too. You can model cabs and dial up a butt load of amp types and drives too. You may even prefer it over other pedals you have too. I have a huge collection of quality pedals and I get more use out of the little Vox then I do the others lately.

[J.Paul]

There's only one pedal I can think of that which might fit that bill. A Rolland Space Echo which lest you run both echo and reverb at the same time.

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RE20pedal?product_id=%7Bproduct_id%7D&adpos=1o1&creative=55282323841&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CMHYlY78qNACFZSMaQodNfUPLg

 

On a real space echo like the one I have you can run the reverb before or after echo. I'm sure these digital versions are similar.

Doesn't seem to have tap tempo but it does let you run an expression pedal. I'm not sure you're saving much real estate over running two separate pedals if that's your goal. You might do better price wise running a separate tap echo and reverb unit.

 

The other option of course is a multi effect pedal. I have one of those Vox Stomplab pedals which isn't much larger then a normal sized pedal. Its got some incredibly good effects. You could easily set up reverb/echo combinations and save them in memory. You could dial up 20 different tap speeds then scroll to the ones you want. I never have much luck with a tap tempo anyway so its not a feature I need.

 

The other effects like Chorus, Tremolo, Pitch Shifting are excellent too. You can model cabs and dial up a butt load of amp types and drives too. You may even prefer it over other pedals you have too. I have a huge collection of quality pedals and I get more use out of the little Vox then I do the others lately.

 

Good stuff there ~

Yeah, I'm currently using a multi effects Zoom mg50 as a dedicated reverb that has a (modulated) delay before it. The Zoom has a tap tempo option and a way to achieve tails/trails/carry over from the delay. Although there are many other usable features on the Zoom I only use this one patch. It sounds pretty darn good but if I can replace it with something better then I'm game. My only problem is that the "mix" on the unit doesn't defeat the original (dry) signal 100%, there is still some dry signal left ...... so if I ever want to get into a mixer (or Xotic Blender type of scenario) it's not ideal.

I might experiment with some of the other brands to see what they have to offer (Pandora something?) and your Vox piece I am unfamiliar with.

[WRGKMC]

I been digging the vox for a year now. Its hard to believe they have so much packed into a small box like that.

Its got stereo out which suits me because I either record in stereo or use stereo amps so having that split really opens things up nicely. Of course I've done similar things using all kinds of dual echo units. I even have an Alesis Echo/Reverb/Chorus unit in one of my rack boxes. I can run a mono or stereo in and get stereo out. Some of the echoes and reverbs sound fantastic with guitar but its is a big unit and I just don't like hauling allot of crap to gigs any more. For me less is best.

 

I don't particularly like multi effects units for live gigs either. There are so many unknown factors playing live and I like being able to tweak my tones to the room I'm in. Last thing I want to have to do is going into the presets and have to tweak things. A quick knob twist I'm fine, but more then that it disrupts my focus on playing.

 

I don't need to have reverb and echo together however. I have reverb in my amps if I need it. Spring verb is kind of a one trick pony but its good enough. The room does the rest. In most places I don't even use it because the room itself creates more then enough. I can always stick a reverb in the effects loop too and just leave it on. Out of all the effects its something that usually gets tweaked the least.

 

I must have a dozen echoes at least now. Pedals, Tape Units, Half Racks, Full Racks, Multi effects pedals. Some of them sell for big bucks these days now. Especially the tape based units. Some players like the image to decay. Many of your vintage digital echoes use bucket brigade chips that do that well. The problem is that don't have a huge rate spread.

 

I have a Boss unit that gets around it by having a range switch. Its probably one of the better analog delays I've used because its the kind of classic delay you'd expect.. I used it for 10 years and its been getting a rest for about 5 years now. I've gravitated towards using ultra transparent ultra clean echoes now. Probably because I don't overuse it. I may adjust it so I get two repeats at most. The first echo is 75% the volume of the original, 2nd 50%, 3rd 25%. Any longer decay and it gets in the way unless I'm doing something really spacy like a U2 cover tune and need that long repeat.

 

Believe it or not I use a cheap Behringer echo most of the time. Go figure. 55 years of playing and I use one of the cheapest pedals I own for live. I take a small compact pedal board consisting of 5 pedals. I can close its lid up and it fits in the back of my small combo amp. I'm done with hauling huge pedal stacks around. If I don't use them for more then one song I have no need to haul them. A short chain ensure better sound quality too.

 

The Behringer is 24 bit and ultra quiet however. Its as good as any rack unit I own and I own a butt load of them. Cost me a whopping $25. Cheap plastic box but I don't care. I'm an electronic tech who can easily rehouse the thing if something breaks. Its not like I'm stomping on it allot either. Its mostly a set and forget pedal for me. I'm used to having a Tape echo on top of the amp and tweaking the motor speed manually.

 

It does have stereo separation but that separation isn't tweakable like you can using two separate echoes. No tap tempo, but again its not a big deal for me.

 

I grew up with old school effects. My first echo was a reel to reel. I'd record to the tape and feed the signal from the playback head into my amp. You could overdrive the tap saturation too. Something you cant do with anything made today. You only had 3 speeds for the three tape speeds and if you used the fastest speed you'd often run out of tape before the song was over. I eventually connected a sewing machine pedal to the motor so I could attenuate the motor speed. Worked pretty good so long as I didn't change the speed to quickly and made the tape bounce.

 

The fidelity and tape saturations was incredible though. I used a good EQ to so I could get specific frequencies to feedback more then others. Guess that's what got me hooked on Hi Fidelity Echo. Even my Space echo doesn't get that kind of fidelity, but its still allot better then many SS.

 

I kind of laugh at the Lo Fi thing. All the years growing up you had to live with Lo Fi because you couldn't afford good gear to get Hi Fi stuff. Once you could afford it there was no way you're going back to using crap to get crap tones. Getting the echo to sound as close to an actual room is the key. you don't get that with low fidelity regeneration but I suppose variety is always important.

 

Anyway good luck on your quest. That Rolland looks like the best bet. I bit pricy but They do make some of the best gear. I've had one of their compressor pedals for about 30 years now and it still works fine.

 

 

 

 

[1001gear]

I don't understand frontal reverb and delay. I mean I know it works and sounds good but isn't there a difference when the amps get saturated? Distorted verb vs verbed distortion?

[WRGKMC]

Sure. You want your verb and echo after drive otherwise you hear nasty string beating. Reverb built into amps comes after the preamp so you're OK getting saturation because it comes before the reverb tank and captures that drive. Same thing with echo. If you're going to use amp drive you want it in the effects loop so that drive is captured in the echo just like drive would be inside a natural room reverberation.

 

You cant capture power amp and speaker saturation unless you mic the amp and have the echo and reverb after the mic.

 

Of course you don't need as much playing live because you have natural reflections.

 

If you're going to use those pedals before an amp then its best to run the amp 100% clean and use pedals to get your drive before them. A little amp drive isn't horrible. It can make the reverb/echo a bit more aggressive but any more it starts sounding nasty, like fingernails on a chalk board.

This is why most people put those pedals in the effects loop.

 

Chorus and Flanger are time based effects too. They usually sound better in the loop if you're using amp drive. Because they're reflections are short and in motion, having them before amp drive isn't quite as bad as your longer decay effects. They're not as irritating and the string beating isn't as noticeable. If you have a loop and haven't tried it before, and do use an amp with a gain channel you might want to try it in the loop. The clarity and realism takes a huge jump, plus the amps EQ is there before them which can make them sound allot bigger, more like a natural room verb.

[r0bo01]

you could also check out tc electronic's nova system. new at the usual suspects for $500, less elsewhere

(e.g. https://www.amazon.com/TC-Electronic.../dp/B0015YM828 ).

unit has tap and midi. its modulation effects are really good and you can run it in front or into the effects loop.

two sticky spots:

1.) preset changes are slow unless you add the switch-3 (aka g-switch) to take over preset switching (stomp mode works just fine though...).

2.) no wah, there is an expression pedal input, but no wah circuit for it to control.

 

i got one on the cheap (mf open box < $300) and it's delays & reverb seem fine to me as far as different types and ways to tweak.

 

p.s. it's dirt ain't bad either...

[DonK]

I go back and forth on delay pedals, so I'm going to avoid that one. On the reverb, I've never found one that equals the Malekko Spring Chicken. I have a couple of nice amps that don't have reverb, but you'd never know it when I run the SC in front.

[J.Paul]

I think I found a piece… http://www.sourceaudio.net/products/one_series/nemesis_delay.php#tabbed=product-info=1 …. still doing some research on it. Need to know if the trails and tails still continue when it’s bypassed (“on/off” ?); but I think the “diffuse” algorithm should be enough of a “reverb slur” for the delay to meet my needs. I’m playing in Dubai through the winter and it look like their local “distributor” is the store I use here …. headed on over to take a look tonight or tomorrow.

[J.Paul]

I think I found a piece… http://www.sourceaudio.net/products/one_series/nemesis_delay.php#tabbed=product-info=1 …. still doing some research on it. Need to know if the trails and tails still continue when it’s bypassed (“on/off” ?); but I think the “diffuse” algorithm should be enough of a “reverb slur” for the delay to meet my needs. I’m playing in Dubai through the winter and it look like their local “distributor” is the store I use here …. headed on over to take a look tonight or tomorrow.

 

Well the distributor here doesn't have any in stock but a quick glance at the user's manual answers my questions :

 

~ Source Audio has a "soft bypass" option that allows for trails. They also include an option to stop the trails (on any given patch) by keeping your foot on the "on/of" button (instead of quickly stepping on it).

 

~ when used in mono the 2nd (unused) output can be routed as a send/ret loop and returned back into the 2nd input. This is assigned to the "feedback" button and could certainly be a reverb pedal if I wanted it to be (if the "Diffuse" delay engine doesn't do the trick for me). I would assume that in switching to another patch with the "feedback" button off it would also turn the effect loop (reverb) off.

 

~ the manual claims to have addressed the clicking/popping issue we all encounter when using true bypass relays.

 

This is the delay for ME. It's just a matter of time now.....

I've had my eye on their programmable midi EQ pedal for quite a while now too

[Chris Loeffler]

[J.Paul]

 

yeah, I saw that a week ago.... it sounds fantastic. really great unit

[sameoldbluesman]

Keeley Delay Workstation should do what you want

 

https://robertkeeley.com/product/delay-workstation/

[J.Paul]

Keeley Delay Workstation should do what you want

 

https://robertkeeley.com/product/delay-workstation/

 

Well that IS exactly what I asked for and a substantial pedal (perhaps perfect ?)

but I am leaning more towards the midi option (which the Nemesis has).

 

Hopefully this thread will be of use to someone Googling for something similar and provide some insight (circa 2016)

...... that Keeley Delay workstation is no joke

here’s a fantastic demo of it :

[defaultusername]

There's only one pedal I can think of that which might fit that bill. A Rolland Space Echo which lest you run both echo and reverb at the same time.

 

...

Doesn't seem to have tap tempo but it does let you run an expression pedal.

 

the RE-20 pedal?

the two pedals aren't bypass for the individual effects, one is master bypass the other is tap tempo

 

I'm not sure you're saving much real estate over running two separate pedals if that's your goal. You might do better price wise running a separate tap echo and reverb unit.

 

agreed.

I can see it though if it's the "brick of ambience" though you are throwing into a guitar case.

 

but the multi probably performs a better job os that

 

something like the MS-100BT