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Need some help boosting my amp


theVillain

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I have a 6505 head that I want to tighten up take some of the fizzy distortion out of the lead channel. Only been playing for about 3 years. I have the tc nova system multi effects pedal. I am new to effects period, I am just not sure what to put in front of my amp. The tube screamer gets a lot great reviews. I have seen exotic clean boost pedal. To be honest I am lost right now. I know that because of preference a lot of people will tell me this one or that one. I don't mind buying a couple but want to start somewhere. I play out about 5 to 6 times a month. I want something I can just plug into my guitar and leave on. I don't mind getting another one if I need to for solo boost. Also thought about throwing a 10 band eq into my effects loop. Need some advice where to start.

 

thanks

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What kind of guitar are you using? What's the budget? There's so many options out there and so many ways to skin this particular cat. If you are just looking to hit the front end of the amp harder I'd be tempted to try a Zvex Super Hard On. For a cheap and dirty boost I've always like the EHX LPB-1.

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I'd first ask if its the amp that's saturated or what's feeding it. If you plug in straight, and there's too much saturation, then you have to look at the head and speakers. Changing your 12AX7 tubes to something with less gain is your best option there. If the speakers saturate too much then going with a higher wattage speaker with less breakup is your best option. A 6505 is mainly an amp for heavy metal tones and it does that well for most people but it may not be as versatile doing other types of music. I've found most Peaveys a bit harsh for my playing styles. I can get them to work with enough tweaking but I'm more of a Fender/Marshall guy.

 

If your drive is coming from your pedals and you essentially run your amp clean, then it comes down to dialing back the effects you're using and turning the amp up. Multi effects pedals can be especially difficult to dial up. Many times they are loaded with presets that are set to extremes that just aren't realistic playing live.

 

A good rule of thumb you can use is to never dial anything up over 50%. Once you do the effect masks your actual guitar notes and any playing skills begins to disappear. Most of the time things like Chorus, Echo & reverb sound best between 10~30%. Manufacturers often push these way up in the 50%+ ranges to showcase what their gear can do. It takes discipline to dial them back. you always want your instrument out in front of all effects. The more effects you dial up the smaller and weaker the instrument sounds.

 

Drive can be especially difficult to dial up. Its so easy to use it as a crutch for your playing and dialing it back, or off can feel like you been in a car accident and lost your wheels. You actually have to slug it out on foot to get places. The thing is the strength of presence playing and how its perceived by others actually goes way up when you do dial back the drive. People can easily block "noise" out from their ears. With a highly saturated sound, a person may be doing a hundred notes a second may be completely ignored. Having cleaner tones in their face makes it impossible to be ignored. Of course you have to be butch enough to play those notes cleaner. You cant be hiding behind a wall of noise. You actually have to have great chops because all details will be clearly heard.

 

One other thing too. If you get into recording you'll quickly discover you have to have much cleaner tones as well. Many of your classic rock recordings were recorded on amps like yours with NO effects before them. The power of the clean tones would blow you over like a reed in the wind. The drive in those recordings came from the speakers, Mic diaphragm, studio console preamps, compressors and tape saturation. Listen carefully to those recordings and judge how much clean tone vs driven tone there actually is.

 

Effects boxes can do some wonderful things especially at lower volume levels, but you have to use them wisely. If you get a chance to invite a pro to play your rig maybe he can give you some pointers on where your gain staging is going wrong and where you need to have things dialed up. Be sure to play along to recordings "at the same volume as your amp" so you can match the drive and tones of other players. This is a big problem when you have a big amp. You probably need a 3000W pa and cabs to get the program music loud enough to play along alt realistic levels.

 

You could use a much smaller amp with your effects unit and play along with a lower wattage a Hi Fi system. Be sure the amp speaker is smaller then the Hi Fi speakers. The guitar part on a recording is only 1/3 to 1/5 or so of the instruments on that recordings so you divide whatever your listening to by the number of players on the recording. If you got 10 guys on the recording and you have a Hi Fi with 12" woofers, you only need a small 1~4" speaker to match what's playing on that recording. You can then dial up realistic tones that match the players tones drives and effects on those recordings. This is the way you do an A/B comparison getting similar tones to your favorite artists. Then when you have your presets, you simply use your amp to make it really loud.

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First of all, welcome to HC. wave.gif

 

I have a 6505 head that I want to tighten up take some of the fizzy distortion out of the lead channel.

 

You might want to start with a lower-gain preamp tube substitution. That way, when you switch to the lead channel, you'll have a bit less gain compared to what you have now... which will usually lead to less distortion overall for that channel.

 

You might want to check out my article on Tube Substitutions for more info... smile.png

 

Only been playing for about 3 years. I have the tc nova system multi effects pedal. I am new to effects period, I am just not sure what to put in front of my amp.

 

Overdrives / distortion / fuzz pedals are all commonly used "in front of" the amp; they're going to have an effect on the sound that's going into the amp, and also an effect on the overall gain structure - set a Tube Screamer for a lot of Volume boost but only a bit of Drive and the amp will get a much hotter but still somewhat "clean" level increase at its input jack, which will drive the amp harder; potentially pushing it into clipping. Get the amp where it's right on the edge of breaking up and a TS that is set up like that can be a very cool "boost" to push the amp over the edge and into some very cool distorted tones. Since the Tube Screamer has a pronounced boost in the midrange, it's not a true "clean boost" like the Xotic boost... it still boosts, but it's also a bit of a tonal shaper. And of course, it can be used with higher Drive settings and it will provide some crunch of its own to the distortion equation, whether being used with high Volume (boost) settings or not.

 

If you prefer a more "transparent" overdrive, check out the EHX Soul Food. It can also add overdrive of its own, or be used as a clean boost. You can use other pedals in a similar way - as a boost or tonal shaper - including things like compressors and graphic EQ pedals. In fact, you may find a EQ in front of the amp useful for helping to shape your overall sound. An inexpensive but very capable and popular EQ pedal (I love mine) is the Danelectro Fish & Chips. I'll get to the idea of one in the loop in a moment...

 

The tube screamer gets a lot great reviews. I have seen exotic clean boost pedal. To be honest I am lost right now. I know that because of preference a lot of people will tell me this one or that one. I don't mind buying a couple but want to start somewhere.

 

You've got some very cool effects in the TC Nova System. Are you running that patched into your 6505's effects loop, or do you have it in front of the amp too? What sorts of things have you tried in terms of effects in the Nova, and how are you typically using it now? For chorusing? Delays? Reverbs? Are you using any compression or overdrive effects on the TC?

 

I play out about 5 to 6 times a month. I want something I can just plug into my guitar and leave on.

 

That usually means a tonal shaper of some kind... but anything you plug in and leave on all the time is going to influence the sound of everything - both the Rhythm and Lead channels of the amp. I'm assuming you switch between them, but it is probably better to ask than assume - do you use the amp's channel switching, or just stick to one channel or the other?

 

I don't mind getting another one if I need to for solo boost. Also thought about throwing a 10 band eq into my effects loop. Need some advice where to start.

 

thanks

 

A ten-band EQ in the loop would be useful... but where you place it will determine what it does. If it's the only thing in the loop, it will control the frequency balance feeding into the power amp from the preamp - somewhat like having a more extensive set of preamp EQ controls, but remember - it will influence both channels. You can't tame a bright Lead channel without also darkening the Rhythm channel at the same time.

 

If you put other pedals in the loop after the EQ, it will control the sound going into them; if you put the EQ after those pedals, it will adjust the sound coming out of them. It sounds obvious, but there are real differences between the two - the post-effects-position EQ processing will include anything the other effects added to the sound, such as the modulation and shimmering of the chorus, the delay's repeats, and the reverb "tail." The best way to see what I mean is to just try it - experiment with both and listen to what they do and how things interact.

 

I think if I was in your shoes, the very first thing I'd try is to put either a 5751 or a 12AT7 tube (Stay away from the 12AY7's... we're saving those for microphones... cop.gifwink.pngbiggrin.gif ) in as a replacement for the first 12AX7 preamp tube in the lead channel of your 6505 and see if that helps.

 

From there, you can experiment with overdrives and boosts in front of the amp, and maybe try an inexpensive 7-band EQ pedal in the loop - if you like what it does, you can consider replacing it in the loop with a 10 band model for more control, and still use the inexpensive EQ in front of the amp.

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Ok thank you! I will try the 12AT7 and see what that will do. I use the nova for delay, reverb and other timed effects. I am running it through my loop. I do switch between channels. I am playing a schecter pt custom with wound to spec bare knuckle painkillers. Price range about 150 is what I am looking to spend. I will start with the preamp tubes and go from there.

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