Phil O'Keefe Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Prophecysound has released a pedal called the Pi-Phase. Not cheap, but less than an original Bi-Phase goes for these days. http://prophecysound.com/products/piphase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members t_e_l_e Posted May 13, 2015 Members Share Posted May 13, 2015 looks really great, have currently no time to hear the sound samples, but the price is really not attractive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted May 13, 2015 Members Share Posted May 13, 2015 Sounds like an angry Siberian or Mongol. [video=youtube;MewvNga1SXU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MewvNga1SXU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mike|prophecysound Posted May 13, 2015 Members Share Posted May 13, 2015 looks really great, have currently no time to hear the sound samples, but the price is really not attractive... Mike from Prophecysound here. Sorry you think it's too expensive. The pedal is assembled locally here in Adelaide, South Australia, and for a compact pedal that reproduces the Bi-Phase sound we think it's priced pretty decently. As you might guess, something that is complicated, with lots of parts and that requires calibration ... all of these things add up. It's important to us to not outsource anything (except for the PCB manufacturing) to people that we can't deal with face to face, so all the PCB board stuffing, labels, box milling, powder coating and final wiring and assembly are done locally; the last steps are done in-house. We want to help stimulate the local economy, even in a small way, and not send work or money away from our community. As well as that, the quality level we've achieved is absolutely world-class, and unlikely to be achievable via outsourcing to far distant third-parties. This is a rationale we'll continue to apply to future products also. I hope you'll at least check-out the samples: https://soundcloud.com/prophecysound...se-mk2-samples ... which are a better representation of the mk2 than the video linked in the other reply. edit: I've added an attachment 'gut-shot' pic for interest. Happy to address other queries about the Pi-Phase mk2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skviggel fhank Posted May 13, 2015 Members Share Posted May 13, 2015 for those interested in a more reasonable priced facsimile the line 6 M5 does a great job of the bi phase model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skviggel fhank Posted May 13, 2015 Members Share Posted May 13, 2015 also the flanger hoax can get a pile of these type of sounds too and looks even more confusing than this bi-phase clone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mike|prophecysound Posted May 13, 2015 Members Share Posted May 13, 2015 for those interested in a more reasonable priced facsimile the line 6 M5 does a great job of the bi phase model Sure, I guess if you want a purely digital approximation with zero headroom and no ability to easily switch on / off each phaser section or change the settings in real time, you could well be happy with the M5. If it sounds good to you, then you could probably sell off all your analog pedals and stick with an all-in-one digital box. As always, let your ears be the judge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted May 13, 2015 Members Share Posted May 13, 2015 I hope you'll at least check-out the samples: https://soundcloud.com/prophecysound...se-mk2-samples ... which are a better representation of the mk2 than the video linked in the other reply. I take it there is no BMuff on this thing. (?) Doesn't sound too bad without fuzz. I like the slow phase. Adds a nice musical tension for nothing - prolly the most common use lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skviggel fhank Posted May 13, 2015 Members Share Posted May 13, 2015 Sure, I guess if you want a purely digital approximation with zero headroom and no ability to easily switch on / off each phaser section or change the settings in real time, you could well be happy with the M5. If it sounds good to you, then you could probably sell off all your analog pedals and stick with an all-in-one digital box. As always, let your ears be the judge... never had any issue with headroom on the M5, and yes it's digital but the modulation effects are quite warm and natural sounding, I was extremely impressed. As for the lack of options this is true, it is not as "full featured" as your clone but also much less confusing in that aspect. I'm sure you made a wonderful copy of the bi-phase and for someone looking for that I bet it is great but I just wanted to share some excellent lower priced alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skviggel fhank Posted May 13, 2015 Members Share Posted May 13, 2015 I am pretty surprised that for the price you charge you can't throw in the uncommon power supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 Mike from Prophecysound here. Sorry you think it's too expensive. The pedal is assembled locally here in Adelaide, South Australia, and for a compact pedal that reproduces the Bi-Phase sound we think it's priced pretty decently. As you might guess, something that is complicated, with lots of parts and that requires calibration ... all of these things add up. It's important to us to not outsource anything (except for the PCB manufacturing) to people that we can't deal with face to face, so all the PCB board stuffing, labels, box milling, powder coating and final wiring and assembly are done locally; the last steps are done in-house. We want to help stimulate the local economy, even in a small way, and not send work or money away from our community. As well as that, the quality level we've achieved is absolutely world-class, and unlikely to be achievable via outsourcing to far distant third-parties. This is a rationale we'll continue to apply to future products also. I hope you'll at least check-out the samples: https://soundcloud.com/prophecysound...se-mk2-samples ... which are a better representation of the mk2 than the video linked in the other reply. edit: I've added an attachment 'gut-shot' pic for interest. Happy to address other queries about the Pi-Phase mk2! Great example of how a manufacturer is welcome to respond to questions that arise about their products in non-spam threads that were started by someone else! I appreciate you stopping by with the extra information, build details, better clips and the gut shot Mike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mike|prophecysound Posted May 13, 2015 Members Share Posted May 13, 2015 I couldn't find the headroom specs for the M5 - which is curious right away - but I'd be guessing they are using a D/A converter that runs from 5V, and maybe only 3.3V. The Pi-Phase runs from an internal +/-15VDC supply - headroom is then absolutely never a problem. Have you A/B-ed the M5 with an original Bi-Phase? I would be guessing not. Also, in case you aren't aware, the Pi-Phase has exactly the same number of controls as the original device, a device that that somehow many ... ahem ... 'inspired' reggae producers have managed to use. I honestly don't see the controls or interface as being confusing in any aspect. However, acknowledging that some people might is one reason we provide miniature reproductions of the original program cards with each Pi-Phase, as well as a manual that goes through how to use the pedal; these resources help new users get going immediately. You can download the manual and have a look for yourself on the Pi-Phase page at the Prophecysound website. Regarding the 'uncommon' power supply, many customers already have a supply that works with the Pi-Phase (CIOKS etc). Also it doesn't make financial sense to be shipping an extra 500gm or 1kg of AC/AC power supply backwards and forwards (once from the supplier to Australia, and then again from us to the customer); this adds significantly to the shipping and overall cost. I've been working with customers to source AC power supplies for my pedals from the early 2000s and haven't failed yet to help them out. However, yes, it is more convenient for some to receive the power supply with the pedal, and this is why our current distributors - Analog Man in the USA, Axe and you shall receive in Canada and 9 Volt in Japan - can provide the correct supply with customer orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mike|prophecysound Posted May 13, 2015 Members Share Posted May 13, 2015 No worries, Phil, happy to share some info and the philosophy behind what we're trying to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 Mike, what are the overall dimensions of the Pi-Phase? I appreciate the smaller footprint your pedal offers. The original Bi-Phase is pretty darned big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fender&EHX4ever Posted May 14, 2015 Members Share Posted May 14, 2015 With shipping to the USA added the Pi Phase is < $600 USD. That is definitely less than an original, and hopefully more portable, dependable, and serviceable. My phaser collection is pretty out-of-control at the moment, but I would definitely consider selling several of them to swap out for one of these in the not-so-distant future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 With shipping to the USA added the Pi Phase is < $600 USD. That is definitely less than an original' date=' and hopefully more portable, dependable, and serviceable. [/quote'] I did a quick Google search to see what they're going for these days and while I was able to find one non-functioning unit being sold for parts only at $600, everything else out there at the moment is way, WAY more expensive than that - about $1,600 to $2,500 seems to be the going rate for them now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mike|prophecysound Posted May 15, 2015 Members Share Posted May 15, 2015 With shipping to the USA added the Pi Phase is < $600 USD. That is definitely less than an original' date=' and hopefully more portable, dependable, and serviceable. My phaser collection is pretty out-of-control at the moment, but I would definitely consider selling several of them to swap out for one of these in the not-so-distant future.[/quote'] FYI Analog Man will have the Pi-Phase mk2 in stock within a week for about US 475, and I think Scott @ Axe and You Shall Receive is doing them for the same price. I know shipping from Australia is expensive for individuals, and finding good dealers to work with is a priority for us at a moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mike|prophecysound Posted May 15, 2015 Members Share Posted May 15, 2015 Mike' date=' what are the overall dimensions of the Pi-Phase? I appreciate the smaller footprint your pedal offers. The original Bi-Phase is pretty darned big.[/quote'] 50mm (H) x 188mm (W) x 122mm (D) or just under 2" high x 7.5" wide x 4.8" deep. We've got a picture comparing the original pedal to a mk1 here: http://prophecysound.com/products/piphase ... and the mk2 is the same dimensions as the mk1, but smaller in height. The original unit also requires a separate footswitch, which is great for remote use but not very practical for small pedal-boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lefort_1 Posted May 16, 2015 Members Share Posted May 16, 2015 If I didn't already have an original (@ 700$ USD about 10 years ago) then I'd be first in line.A tip of the brim to gents who build great stuff locally.Price isn't everything... accuracy and good design is. to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members t_e_l_e Posted May 20, 2015 Members Share Posted May 20, 2015 hi mike, i didn't mean to offend you or your pedal. i listened to your samples and they sound really great. i'm not the right person to judge how much a pedal should cost or not, i'm sure your price is well calculated. i'm a bit biased regarding "phasers". i built a phase90 clone and later bought subdecay deluxe quasar. both are great. the quasar has so many options that its almost too complicated for me. currently i have both ditched of my board and play phaser less. with not attractive i meant $475 is a lot of money, if someone like me just want to check it out if i like it or not. i hope you'll find a lot of bi-phase lovers as customers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 20, 2015 Author Share Posted May 20, 2015 50mm (H) x 188mm (W) x 122mm (D) or just under 2" high x 7.5" wide x 4.8" deep. We've got a picture comparing the original pedal to a mk1 here: http://prophecysound.com/products/piphase ... and the mk2 is the same dimensions as the mk1, but smaller in height. The original unit also requires a separate footswitch, which is great for remote use but not very practical for small pedal-boards. Thanks - that's a huge difference in size! I also noticed what appeared to be overlay / preset cards like the originals. Do those come with the Pi-Phase too? Internally, are you generally sticking to the same circuit as the original? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mike|prophecysound Posted May 20, 2015 Members Share Posted May 20, 2015 hi mike, i didn't mean to offend you or your pedal. i listened to your samples and they sound really great. i'm not the right person to judge how much a pedal should cost or not, i'm sure your price is well calculated. i'm a bit biased regarding "phasers". i built a phase90 clone and later bought subdecay deluxe quasar. both are great. the quasar has so many options that its almost too complicated for me. currently i have both ditched of my board and play phaser less. with not attractive i meant $475 is a lot of money, if someone like me just want to check it out if i like it or not. i hope you'll find a lot of bi-phase lovers as customers I'm not offended, but I can't speak for the pedals. You've hit the nail on the head I think - the target market is not the average player 'just looking for a phaser', it's someone specifically looking for the sound or flexibility that the original pedal offered, especially now as it's possible to get those attributes at a price that is way, way less than an original; and you'll be getting a new device with warranty and support. It's also more practical to use on a pedal-board, which is something I've wanted myself for a long time. We've been toying with the idea of a 'micro' version that provides a single channel version with simplified controls at a much lower price, but still with the characteristic sound of the mk2. This version might appeal more to yourself or other people who don't want or need so 'much' phaser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mike|prophecysound Posted May 20, 2015 Members Share Posted May 20, 2015 Thanks - that's a huge difference in size! I also noticed what appeared to be overlay / preset cards like the originals. Do those come with the Pi-Phase too? Internally, are you generally sticking to the same circuit as the original? Yes, mini reproductions of the original overlays come with each pedal. I thought it'd be fun to include those, but it turns out many people really like being able to have 'presets' and known starting points to work from. The circuit is identical to the original, save for a couple of slight tweaks to the power supply section and also the mk2 is true-bypass, whereas the original was not. Whilst good arguments can be made for both true-bypass and buffered-bypass IMO the former is 'safest' when it comes to avoiding cumulative effects on tone through a range of pedals, and especially in case of power failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skviggel fhank Posted May 21, 2015 Members Share Posted May 21, 2015 also check out this beast for a less costly analog phaser that can also cop very similar sounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mike|prophecysound Posted May 21, 2015 Members Share Posted May 21, 2015 also check out this beast for a less costly analog phaser that can also cop very similar sounds I've built about 20 of the 3MS / 4MS phaseurs - I actually started off building pedals for Dan Green / 4MS pre the 3MS legal issues in the early '00s - and whilst they are a sweet phaser the filter arrangement doesn't sound much like the one in the Bi-Phase / Pi-Phase. Both units share a 6-stage all-pass filter arrangement with LEDs/LDRs, yes, but the values in the 4MS phaseur are different to those in the Pi-Phase. The feedback circuits are also completely different in each; in the 4MS unit the feedback is through 4 phase stages, whereas in the Pi-Phase the feedback is through the entire phase section of 6 stages. The Phaseur also has a single phase section, whereas the Pi-Phase has two that can be driven from the same LFO, or not, and used in mono or stereo. The Phaseur runs from 9VDC, whereas the Pi-Phase operates internally from +/-15VDC, so there is a big different in the cleanliness of the tone and the available bandwidth. Finally the Phaseur uses a cool but (aside from the standard core) different circuit for generating LFO shapes than the Pi-Phase. So, yes, aside from the differences above (and some others I didn't mention), you are right - they can 'cop very similar sounds.' Here's one of the phaseurs I built for one of my own customers: http://prophecysound.com/customprojects/stage-selectable-phase-shifter It's very cool to see how far Dan has taken 4ms these days, especially into the modular arena. Very smart and nice guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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