Members groovezilla Posted November 22, 2014 Members Share Posted November 22, 2014 I'm thinking about getting an Empress ParaEQ. However is that considered a fail regarding my guitar tone? Purist would say that the guitar and amp should create the magic - although I've always done some light para equing in the studio to sweeten things up. Talk amongst yourselves, I'm getting vaklempft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members iodine74 Posted November 22, 2014 Members Share Posted November 22, 2014 Been wondering the same thing (though just about ParaEQs in general not just the Empress). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted November 22, 2014 Members Share Posted November 22, 2014 Trying to shape your tone electronically isn't a crime. It's not even a sin. If it gets you timbres that mean something to you, BFD the purists. If you have good amps no doubt there will be cats that wont need anything else. You'll obviously have to do that time if you want to play likewise. I think the best compromise is to have good material and take steps to bring out the music in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cryptosonic Posted November 22, 2014 Members Share Posted November 22, 2014 There is an eq on your amp, possibly several. There is a tone control on your guitar. There is at least a basic tone control on most dirt boxes. You're already cheating, so cheat away. Or maybe you're not cheating at all? Only pure acoustic players can accuse an electric guitarist of cheating, and they have a point. Also, tone control should be standard eqipment in delay/reverb return paths. I said it, and I won't take it back. Edit: the case for pedal eq: http://www.amptone.com/g021.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danhedonia Posted November 22, 2014 Members Share Posted November 22, 2014 The problem with "right / wrong" valuation of approaches to music is that it inevitably leads to fewer possibilities, which reduces creativity. There is no 'wrong' way to make a noise with a guitar and other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members groovezilla Posted November 23, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 23, 2014 Super appreciate all the feedback. It confirms what I was thinking, but just wanted to make sure. I am a bit of 'purist' myself, only use tube amps and separate effects pedals, but I need to get over my bad self and take the plunge into the para eq. I figure it's like polishing the finish on a 68 Camero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Trick Fall Posted November 23, 2014 Members Share Posted November 23, 2014 Do whatever makes you happy and sounds right to you. It doesn't matter how you get there as long as it makes sounds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fender&EHX4ever Posted November 23, 2014 Members Share Posted November 23, 2014 In an ideal world, we would all be so rich that we could purchase every guitar and amp combo that produced the exact tone we wanted for every song or situation we ever encountered, a Semi to carry it all, and a full guitar tech armada to manage it for us at every coffee house we play (and never have to use any pedals in between so we can tell the tone purists that we have obeyed their righteous fundamentalist gear dogma). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fender&EHX4ever Posted November 24, 2014 Members Share Posted November 24, 2014 ... or we can use an EQ pedal. I love the EHX Tube EQ. I've been using it a lot lately to dial in warm boosted mids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jasaoke Posted November 24, 2014 Members Share Posted November 24, 2014 Regardless of how "pure" you sound is, the instant you try to take it to a larger audience, you're coloring it, anyway. Any microphone, preamp, mixer, recording console, tape machine, etc., etc., has a sound. For goodness sake, the type of floor your amp is sitting on, or room it's in, has a tremendous affect on how it sounds. If you move it farther away from your houses (or venues) service entrance, there could very well be a measurable voltage drop. So how pure can a purist possibly be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members groovezilla Posted November 24, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2014 Regardless of how "pure" you sound is' date=' the instant you try to take it to a larger audience, you're coloring it, anyway. Any microphone, preamp, mixer, recording console, tape machine, etc., etc., has a sound. For goodness sake, the type of floor your amp is sitting on, or room it's in, has a tremendous affect on how it sounds. If you move it farther away from your houses (or venues) service entrance, there could very well be a measurable voltage drop. So how pure can a purist possibly be?[/quote'] I get what you're saying, mics, pre, the PA system all have frequency responses. When I'm in the position of engineering live or in the studio, I take the stance that it's my job to capture the tone, unless it totally suck, then I try to help them. If my tone is spot on, then they engineers won't monkey with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jasaoke Posted November 24, 2014 Members Share Posted November 24, 2014 In my experience, the engineer has to monkey with it, no matter what. The greatest guitar tone in the world will not fit into a mix unless something is compromised. Competing frequencies from other instruments almost always dictate that something has to be shaped in the mix to make it all fit together. If you're Joe Satriani, and the entire band is built around your tone, then sure, don't change a thing. To me, the idea of sonic "purity" is downright laughable, considering the amount of electronics that create the sound. Even if you do manage to capture it perfectly, it will sound different coming out of the PA/studio speakers/ car stereo because they are different. An amp uses lots of power and speakers to move air, and that cannot be reproduced by playback equipment. Regardless of the quality of a recording, it cannot match the experience of standing next to a real instrument. But that's OK. Everybody knows the magician doesn't really saw the lady in half. Do whatever you need to sound the way that you want to. The hard part is knowing when to stop. You can never get a polished, studio sound out of an amplifier alone, regardless of what you put in front of it. I am always somewhat dissapointed when I hear a bare drum kit, but when you get that thing mic's up, wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members t_e_l_e Posted November 25, 2014 Members Share Posted November 25, 2014 I get what you're saying, mics, pre, the PA system all have frequency responses. When I'm in the position of engineering live or in the studio, I take the stance that it's my job to capture the tone, unless it totally suck, then I try to help them. If my tone is spot on, then they engineers won't monkey with it. in a "studio" you should answer the question "how should the recorded music sound?" not "how does my amp and guitar sound in the recording room". it does not matter, if the sound in the recording room is the best you ever had, when the recording does not sound anything near to it. it's another abstraction layer more, it does make things more complicated, but it does approach the problem from the other direction, which in this recording case is more important in a "live" situation you should dail in your sound how you like it and you should please the soundguy in not being too loud. how the audience will hear it you might never know and is mostly in full control of the sound guy only. so rule number one here is, do not pi.. off your soundguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danhedonia Posted November 26, 2014 Members Share Posted November 26, 2014 Last two posts are terrific. Wish to add a cautionary tale. Scene: Nineteen-ninety something, alt-guitar rules the airwaves. I worked with a # of successful musicians and some less so; in the latter category is a person who is an impeccable player, truly gifted (dropped out of Berklee College of Music out of boredom) and wrote some really wonderful songs. He was also a notorious tone chaser, in that he was always looking for a certain single sound that I can best define as "Jazzmaster through Plexi." Times change, life goes on, people get married and have kids and abandon rock star dreams and stop van touring. He still writes and records and gigs with his band, and is still very good. And still chases that same tone. He now plays a very customized guitar through an impossibly expensive amplifier, but it's still that JM/Plexi aesthetic. Here's the thing: the music ... sounds the same to me. I'm bored with it, good as it is. In a recent conversation, I was sharing with him how I now have expanded my former 'purist' aesthetic to not only appreciating vintage Fenders through nice, pricy tube amps, but also find sonic appeal in things like routing an EMG pickup > digital effects > solid state amp. He wrinkled his nose. Variety really is the spice of life, and if you cannot get outside your initial stereotypes for sound, you are really limiting yourself as an artist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members groovezilla Posted December 1, 2014 Author Members Share Posted December 1, 2014 in a "studio" you should answer the question "how should the recorded music sound?" not "how does my amp and guitar sound in the recording room". it does not matter, if the sound in the recording room is the best you ever had, when the recording does not sound anything near to it. it's another abstraction layer more, it does make things more complicated, but it does approach the problem from the other direction, which in this recording case is more important in a "live" situation you should dail in your sound how you like it and you should please the soundguy in not being too loud. how the audience will hear it you might never know and is mostly in full control of the sound guy only. so rule number one here is, do not pi.. off your soundguy I go by the belief that the amp is every bit a part of the instrument as the guitar. I have over 10 years experience as a studio owner and producer, I found that the best recording happen when the musicians and singers have it dialed and it just needs to be captured. Hence, when I go in the studio, I ask the engineer to make my track sound like it does when you're in the room with the amp. They do - and it sounds awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members groovezilla Posted December 1, 2014 Author Members Share Posted December 1, 2014 Last two posts are terrific. Wish to add a cautionary tale. Scene: Nineteen-ninety something, alt-guitar rules the airwaves. I worked with a # of successful musicians and some less so; in the latter category is a person who is an impeccable player, truly gifted (dropped out of Berklee College of Music out of boredom) and wrote some really wonderful songs. He was also a notorious tone chaser, in that he was always looking for a certain single sound that I can best define as "Jazzmaster through Plexi." Times change, life goes on, people get married and have kids and abandon rock star dreams and stop van touring. He still writes and records and gigs with his band, and is still very good. And still chases that same tone. He now plays a very customized guitar through an impossibly expensive amplifier, but it's still that JM/Plexi aesthetic. Here's the thing: the music ... sounds the same to me. I'm bored with it, good as it is. In a recent conversation, I was sharing with him how I now have expanded my former 'purist' aesthetic to not only appreciating vintage Fenders through nice, pricy tube amps, but also find sonic appeal in things like routing an EMG pickup > digital effects > solid state amp. He wrinkled his nose. Variety really is the spice of life, and if you cannot get outside your initial stereotypes for sound, you are really limiting yourself as an artist. Definitely the focus should be on the music - the tone is just a vehicle. I don't get tired of Jeff Beck, Robben Ford or SRV and their tone stays pretty much the same. IMO modeler amps are actually a harmful to the art. In fact most of modeling amps are used by guitar players in cover bands doing kitschy impressions of other guitar players (ala Rich Little). Dave Grohl said it best in his key note of SXSW... "Find your voice." Modeling amps are rarely used to find the voice. And nothing sounds or smells better than warm tubes. Just my opinion. I know there's a fine line between close-mindedness and being true to what one believes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members groovezilla Posted December 12, 2014 Author Members Share Posted December 12, 2014 I just ordered my Empress Para EQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ninjaaron Posted December 13, 2014 Members Share Posted December 13, 2014 It's not cheating to get better tone because there is no loser in that scenario. If one person gets better tone, s/he sounds better for everyone, para EQ or not. In fact, there is no cheating in music, period... unless it's some kind of contest, or milli vanilli, etc. Ok, so there is cheating in music. Disregard post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members groovezilla Posted December 13, 2014 Author Members Share Posted December 13, 2014 It's not cheating to get better tone because there is no loser in that scenario. If one person gets better tone, s/he sounds better for everyone, para EQ or not. In fact, there is no cheating in music, period... unless it's some kind of contest, or milli vanilli, etc. Ok, so there is cheating in music. Disregard post. Heck, I should have bought a karaoke machine instead of a para eq. Oh well, there's alway next Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.