Members goodhonk Posted August 5, 2014 Members Share Posted August 5, 2014 mildly interesting [YOUTUBE]b-tMEFLgxso[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I don't have time to watch it now, but I'll definitely check it out tonight or tomorrow night. Thanks for posting the video goodhonk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goodhonk Posted August 5, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 5, 2014 youre welcome. unfortunately they don't spend very much time explaining the recording processes. but geoff emerick does give some recording secrets and session insider info. video gets more interesting as it goes along, starts off a little boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I actually quite enjoyed watching that. There's enough there to fill in the blanks. It's not like it's being done exactly the same as the Beatles did it (time and other restrictions that they didn't have, no bouncing between two J37's, etc.) but it is an approach a lot of people probably aren't very familiar with any more... tracking with limited tracks on tape through an old board with limited capabilities (but wonderful sonics), and having to learn your parts, play together, and commit to actual performances. Sure you can punch and double and all that (I was surprised to hear no obvious use of varispeed; the harpsichord isn't in A-440, etc.) but it really is different than flying parts around and all the editing and "fixing" and one part at a time tracking that tends to be done in Pro Tools in the modern era. I don't recall exactly where it was, but I loved hearing the compressor sucking and swishing the cymbals on the drums - that's classic Fairchild 660 + Geoff Emerick. I loved Bryan Adam's vocals - he really did a good job. He and his band are real pros. Stereophonic's version was really good too. I've always been a fan at having a go at some recording you really like. I've been a big proponent of that for years. It's a fantastic exercise for the ears, as well as for your musical chops - especially if you try to go not just for the notes but the vibe, energy, and feel of the original recording too. Then of couse there's the whole engineering aspect - getting the sounds right without the same equipment, and in any room short of the ones at 3 Abbey Road (mostly Studio 2, although the video shows Studio 3, which has been remodeled since the Beatles last worked in there), or with different music gear than what was used on the original recording is for all intents and purposes impossible - the sound and acoustics of those studios is as important to those recordings as that REDD console or Studer J37 four track tape deck were IMO. Sources and gear - and rooms - matter. But doing the best you can to try to emulate the sound of a recording with whatever you have available is a lot of fun, and something that can teach you a lot. Of course, I've never had the opportunity to do it with Geoff Emerick running the session, and in Studio 3 at Abbey Road. I was asked to do a version of a Beatles song for a comp album back in the mid 00s, and the friend who asked me, knowing I'm a big Beatles fan, thought I'd already have something suitable ready to go - and I didn't. I only had a few days (and a couple of already booked sessions for other projects) to get something done. So I called up Mike Cosgrove from Alien Ant Farm and asked him if he'd come over and play drums and percussion, and I did the best I could with everything else. We did a lot of listening, and tracked it pretty fast. We used the gear we had available. Mike had a new Vistalite set he wanted to try out, which is a Ludwig, but more Bonham than Ringo. I used a Tele instead of a Gretsch because at the time I didn't have one, and I didn't have time to try to track one down. I wound up mixing it after a long day of mixing a bunch of other stuff (so my ears were pretty tired) and sending it in at the last minute before it went to press. All things considered, I was fairly happy with how it turned out, but I'm a perfectionist - I still hear all the things that in retrospect, I wish I had done different / better, or that I'd like to fix... but that's the thing about that rawer, faster, more limited approach - you have to learn to live with the humanity, with the imperfections in it. And if it's done well, there's a certain appeal - a different feel and sound to the recordings done with that approach that can be perceived, and that people really like. I think some of those recordings, although covers, were really well done, and good examples of that. They largely stayed true to the originals, but since it's different people, it's never going to sound exactly the same - even with the same engineer, same board and tape deck, and in one of the original rooms. But I'll bet it was a lot of fun for every single one of them. I'd love to have that opportunity. What musician / engineer / Beatles fan wouldn't? Thanks again for posting that. philthumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goodhonk Posted August 6, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 6, 2014 Thanks for the in depth response. I'm always amazed at how bad it sounds before they start double tracking vocals and adding compression/studio magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RadioSilence Posted August 6, 2014 Members Share Posted August 6, 2014 Oh I remember watching this when it first aired, 7 or 8 years ago? I'll give it another watch. Thanks, Honk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eti Posted August 6, 2014 Members Share Posted August 6, 2014 It was 47 years ago last June. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 It was 47 years ago last June. Can you believe that??? I remember when it was first released; when "twenty years ago today" was still "in the future", and then when it actually was 20 years since it was released... and now it's been over twice that long. And it still sounds amazing, even today. Considering the era and the limited capabilities of the equipment available to them, it's a stunning technical and artistic achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danhedonia Posted August 6, 2014 Members Share Posted August 6, 2014 Sure gives you a great sense of just how much the Beatles' recordings involved mental synchronicity; no wonder they were so tired of each other after such a short time. They spent a LOT of time in each other's heads. It has to feel violating to an extent (and wonderful other times). Go ahead and laught at Bryan Adams. He and his grey haired cru simply do it, like true professional musicians. You may not like the performance, etc., but he certainly wasn't flustered like the KC's. May I never, ever be trapped on a long car trip with a member of the Fray. The Magic Numbers sound good, look boring. Razorlight should deliver a bouquet or cupcakes to Geoff Emerick. But they seem like nice guys and I could see enjoying working with them. Travis ... did Coldplay say no? Just kidding ... like Bryan Adams, won't win awards for soulfulness but really can play. I don't ever resent people's success when it's clear they've worked this hard. Stereophonics .... poor bastards. Time to yell at A&R! Finally: I saw Redd Kross in the late 80's, right around the time that their first run (young punks with skilz) had run it's course, and they had not yet been picked up by power pop fans. Their set was an amazing tour de force of musicianship; the Macdonald brothers absolutely can play, and so could the old, greybearded mandolinist they had in the band at that point (!). They played a ****************ty club (the Channel, for you Bostonians of a certain age) and had some issues with the sound man, and it was August and terribly hot and uncomfortable. Jeff was trying to get his gear to work, and was clearly getting pissed by the drunk up front who kept demanding "He's A Rebel!!!!" As he got his kit sorted, he turned around and said "Here's a song about the ULTIMATE rebel, Jesus Christ! What do you think about that?!?!?" And they proceeded to do a medley of "I Don't Know How to Love Him" into "A Day In the Life" with the old greybeard, who hadn't said a THING all night into his front and center mike, waiting to hit The Note (well, you know: the 'ahhh' which goes on and on), which he did. And then they put down their stuff and walked off. No encore. That was seriously one of the most amazing rock and roll moments I've ever seen, and I have seen a lot. I hope that someone gets RK to set down their version. Phil, I think they live near you ... hint. **********Not too long ago, I got the Lewinsohn book and started reading it front to back, to have a sense of the progression, as well as the pace of work. What really struck me is how impossible it would be these days to release music with that frequency, even supposing you were able to create it. Or would it? Would a great new band be smart to keep releasing digital singles/EPs every six to twelve weeks? Because two albums a year couldn't work at all. And back to the book: what an amazing book. If you're into recording rock music, it's just a must-read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danhedonia Posted August 6, 2014 Members Share Posted August 6, 2014 Addendum: the Macdonald twins back then performed in one-piece pantsuits and platforms. Seriously; holy schnikeys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Stereophonics .... poor bastards. Time to yell at A&R! I agree - but in spite of being told to learn the wrong version (the album opener instead of the reprise), I felt they really stepped up and did a great job. Considering the circumstances, I was impressed. Finally: I saw Redd Kross in the late 80's, right around the time that their first run (young punks with skilz) had run it's course, and they had not yet been picked up by power pop fans. Their set was an amazing tour de force of musicianship; the Macdonald brothers absolutely can play, and so could the old, greybearded mandolinist they had in the band at that point (!). They played a ****************ty club (the Channel, for you Bostonians of a certain age) and had some issues with the sound man, and it was August and terribly hot and uncomfortable. Jeff was trying to get his gear to work, and was clearly getting pissed by the drunk up front who kept demanding "He's A Rebel!!!!" As he got his kit sorted, he turned around and said "Here's a song about the ULTIMATE rebel, Jesus Christ! What do you think about that?!?!?" And they proceeded to do a medley of "I Don't Know How to Love Him" into "A Day In the Life" with the old greybeard, who hadn't said a THING all night into his front and center mike, waiting to hit The Note (well, you know: the 'ahhh' which goes on and on), which he did. And then they put down their stuff and walked off. No encore. That was seriously one of the most amazing rock and roll moments I've ever seen, and I have seen a lot. I hope that someone gets RK to set down their version. Phil, I think they live near you ... hint. Cool story - thanks for sharing that! I have never met the guys in Red Kross. I didn't realize they lived out in this area... ********** Not too long ago, I got the Lewinsohn book and started reading it front to back, to have a sense of the progression, as well as the pace of work. What really struck me is how impossible it would be these days to release music with that frequency, even supposing you were able to create it. Or would it? It would be a tough schedule to keep, no doubt about it. Writing that much material - that much GREAT material - is the biggest challenge IMO, but you also have to learn it (as a band), arrange it, and then record it. The process today typically takes longer than it did back then, but even the Beatles required increasingly more time for album production as their careers progressed. The first album (Please Please Me) was done in a long (~13 hour) day. Sgt. Pepper took over six months... Would a great new band be smart to keep releasing digital singles/EPs every six to twelve weeks? Because two albums a year couldn't work at all. We're in an era now that in some ways is similar to the pre-Beatles era... albums are not the format of choice today - singles are. IMHO, you're probably better off releasing singles more regularly and keeping "in front" of your audience more frequently than waiting a year until everything's done and releasing an album. And back to the book: what an amazing book. If you're into recording rock music, it's just a must-read. That is indeed a fantastic book. Another one to check out is Recording The Beatles. It's expensive, but incredibly well researched and like Lewinsohn's book, a must-have for Beatles fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I'm always amazed at how bad it sounds before they start double tracking vocals and adding compression/studio magic. See the quote in my sig from Sir George Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goodhonk Posted August 9, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 9, 2014 I have sigs disabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members riff ie Posted August 9, 2014 Members Share Posted August 9, 2014 Like-wise, haven't had a smoke in a month & week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members V Posted August 13, 2014 Members Share Posted August 13, 2014 I liked most of this but I really didn't get the Magic Numbers version of She's Leaving Home. They had to pick a band to do only vocals and picked them? I thought the drummer who filled in for Ringo was a much stronger singer than any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records." - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I wasn't all that impressed with the Magic Numbers version either. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goodhonk Posted August 13, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 13, 2014 the music was right on, but that dude singing was not my cup of tea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Like-wise, haven't had a smoke in a month & week... I just noticed this - good for you Riffy! Hang in there - it gets easier as time goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members riff ie Posted August 23, 2014 Members Share Posted August 23, 2014 back atcha ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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