Members eti Posted August 3, 2014 Members Share Posted August 3, 2014 -lFBjRq58o0 This was open-air mic'd. I want to switch to direct recording but still want to use my amps instead of monitoring with headphones. I have a line-out from one amp, but not the other. I suppose I need a direct box of some sort. I already have a small mixer. Any advice appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Trick Fall Posted August 3, 2014 Members Share Posted August 3, 2014 If you can get away with playing at a decent volume buy a SM 57 and mic the amp. If not my favorite direct sound so far is the Tech 21 character series. Also are you saying you would like to record direct, but monitor through your amp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eti Posted August 3, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 3, 2014 Also are you saying you would like to record direct, but monitor through your amp? Yes, I want to monitor through two amps, actually, since that is my current setup. I don't want to use mics; I want to record direct both channels of my signal path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Trick Fall Posted August 4, 2014 Members Share Posted August 4, 2014 I"m curious as to why you don't want to mic the amps as most of the time people don't want to mic amps because of volume issues. Anyway, how do you want to monitor through the amps? Do you want to split your signal so that you are playing your amps live and have a signal also going to amp sims? Or do you want to send the signal back out from your recorder to the amps? If you are really set on recording direct I would suggest looking into an amp sim and getting decent monitor speakers and using those for monitoring. Also I forgot to mention it in my original post, but the tone in the video was very cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goodhonk Posted August 4, 2014 Members Share Posted August 4, 2014 hey eti, can't help with your question, but i saw this in hcpp and thought you'd dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eti Posted August 4, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 4, 2014 hey eti, can't help with your question, but i saw this in hcpp and thought you'd dig it. Image is broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eti Posted August 4, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 4, 2014 I"m curious as to why you don't want to mic the amps as most of the time people don't want to mic amps because of volume issues. Anyway, how do you want to monitor through the amps? Do you want to split your signal so that you are playing your amps live and have a signal also going to amp sims? Or do you want to send the signal back out from your recorder to the amps? If you are really set on recording direct I would suggest looking into an amp sim and getting decent monitor speakers and using those for monitoring. Also I forgot to mention it in my original post, but the tone in the video was very cool. Think of this as recording a live performance with multiple sound sources. I use two amps, one for each channel of my signal path. This is how I practice. I want to record my 2 signal paths direct without giving up my 2 amp setup. "I"m curious as to why you don't want to mic the amps as most of the time people don't want to mic amps because of volume issues." I suppose I could, but it seems like a hassle vs just plugging in directly from something (amp line-out, DI box etc.). Plus I don't want to worry about isolating the two signals. "Anyway, how do you want to monitor through the amps?" Exactly the way I do now. The same way I recorded the video; with the sound travelling through the open air. Not using headphones. "Do you want to split your signal so that you are playing your amps live and have a signal also going to amp sims? Or do you want to send the signal back out from your recorder to the amps?" One of my amps has a line-out, so that is set. The other I want to split somehow. Could go to an amp sim, but it might not need that. Just wonder how other people do it. It's a simple problem really, I'll just use some sort of splitter. Didn't think it would create much discussion/confusion. Thanks for your help. "If you are really set on recording direct I would suggest looking into an amp sim and getting decent monitor speakers and using those for monitoring." Seems like overkill, though of course I want to monitor my recording at some point. "Also I forgot to mention it in my original post, but the tone in the video was very cool." Thanks, man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goodhonk Posted August 4, 2014 Members Share Posted August 4, 2014 It's an iceman with a floral pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Trick Fall Posted August 4, 2014 Members Share Posted August 4, 2014 What you are looking to do is kind of unconventional. What kind of amps are you using? Also If you were to close mic the amps with dynamic mics like two SM 57's you would have no appreciable bleed between the two channels. Personally I find the sound of mic'd amps to be far superior to going direct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eti Posted August 5, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 5, 2014 What you are looking to do is kind of unconventional. What kind of amps are you using? Also If you were to close mic the amps with dynamic mics like two SM 57's you would have no appreciable bleed between the two channels. Personally I find the sound of mic'd amps to be far superior to going direct. My amps are no great shakes; an Orange Crush 15r and a Moviola URS with an external 8" speaker cab. I'll try micing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members riff ie Posted August 5, 2014 Members Share Posted August 5, 2014 I'm no engineer so I'll leave that advice to those w/ more experience. Although I would like to say I appreciate your sincere expression, head on w/ it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Eti, which amp has the line output - are you using the headphone out on the Orange Crush 15R for that? I'm going to assume that's the case, and that the other amp / speaker cab is the issue. What I'd recommend, at the low end of the price range, is something like a Hughes & Kettner Red Box. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/hughes-kettner-red-box-5-classic-di-and-amp-simulator Put that inline with the amp / speaker... plug the amp's speaker output into it, and from the thru jack of the H&K into the speaker. You NEED to run it with a speaker load plugged into it at all times to prevent damage to the amp - The Red Box is a speaker-simulated line out, not a loadbox. The output is line level / XLR, so you may need a cable or adapter to convert that to whatever plug format your rig requires... but it will give you a post-amp line output signal that you can record direct. However, once you plug that in, you will have possibly created a ground loop, and it may hum. If it does, a inline transformer (GigRig Humdinger, Radial Hotshot ABY switch, etc.) is the way to go to get rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coloringpad Posted August 6, 2014 Members Share Posted August 6, 2014 Watched. Liked. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eti Posted August 6, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 6, 2014 Eti, which amp has the line output - are you using the headphone out on the Orange Crush 15R for that? Thanks for your reply. Actually it's the Moviola URS—I had Marcus from Young Pedals do some mods on it, including adding an attenuated line-out. I hadn't thought about possibly damaging the amp if I didn't load the speakers, though. As for the Orange Crush 15R, Using the headphone out would silence the speaker, so I need some other solution for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eti Posted August 6, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 6, 2014 I'm no engineer so I'll leave that advice to those w/ more experience. Although I would like to say I appreciate your sincere expression, head on w/ it... Watched. Liked. Nice. Thanks, guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goodhonk Posted August 6, 2014 Members Share Posted August 6, 2014 how about now eti? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danhedonia Posted August 6, 2014 Members Share Posted August 6, 2014 What Phil said, plus some thoughts. * I have a similar wish and 'get' that you want isolated channel recordings w/out having to wear headphones, in your dedicated space. With respect, I would suggest that no matter what, you get with the miking. If you care enough to invest this much thought / time then you are definitely going to need to understand mic placement, possible baffling (which can be homemade, no need to be snobby) and finally, how to mix down multi-source ambient-miked tracks.Because it's a thing, ambient sound. Please understand, I am NOT a One True Way guy, and absolutely appreciate the sonic possibilities of removing ambience. But on the same topic, ambience and mike bleed is a source of sonic richness itself, and so: just do it. * Another possibility would be an ABY in front of amp that doesn't have an output. After embarrassing myself tossing a hissy fit when I failed to read the PRINT ON THE PEDAL ITSELF on a mis-shipment, I have been quite happy with my Radial. And it has a polarity switch to address at least some of the hum on a possible ground loop. However, if you are not able to address the levels between that and the amp-out, it may require another box ... * Phil's words about load and line level (vs. instrument) are really worth thinking through before you do anything. First, check immediately whether you are doing your amp harm by not loading the speaker. I am unfamiliar with that amp, but there are some amps that really, really don't like when they are trying to load a speaker and cannot. You do not want this! REALLY.Second, speaking as a home recordist with some aural pickiness, I've found a certain amount of idiosyncracy among different load levels. Specifically, my TASCAM DP-24 can have up to 8 active inputs, but when I toss in multiples (example: iPad for rhythm from DM1 app; XLR direct-out from guitar amp; direct out from Yamaha cheapo keys) it doesn't always play nice.And there is a workflow consideration: having to readjust and tweak levels and settings can get in the way.So think through a possible way to reduce the different #'s of levels you'll deal with, and thank me later. Make a schematic on paper, even if it's just crude. Lastly, I don't know what was wrong with the recording you posted. What are you trying to get that you can't with that? Sweeping pans? Are you a hardcore stereo player where "my left channel is always quite different from the right?" Because bouncing tracks can help, too ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eti Posted August 7, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 7, 2014 Nice, but I prefer a set neck Iceman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eti Posted August 7, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 7, 2014 Thanks, Danhedonia. What's wrong is I'm picking up too much of my picking and pedal stomping noise (not to mention the possibility of noise from my neighbors, etc.), and I want some post-facto control of the levels; one amp is mostly playing a drone from my EHX Superego, and that is all but lost on playback. Will look into micing. Thanks for the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 You may find you still pick up some footswitch clicks when miking. Good directional mikes, positioned in close will help reduce that - especially if you can get the amps turned up a touch. If not (due to neighbors, etc.) try isolating the amps in a clothes closet, or move them further away from you and the pedals if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danhedonia Posted August 7, 2014 Members Share Posted August 7, 2014 Mic placement and being able to improvise iso booths (can you say coat closet?) will serve you well. But I get it - you have too much ambient noise. Which, uhm, usually means you need to turn up, mic a bit closer (if you are using a phone mic I am sure you are not 6-15" from the speaker) .... or use headphones. Weren't we here before? LOL. Remember what I said about the diagram! And what Phil said about load levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Suilebhain Posted August 11, 2014 Members Share Posted August 11, 2014 You said that you are using a small mixer. Does the mixer have some sort of stereo tape monitor-out or anything like that? If not you could run A/B/Y splitters (or even get those 1-in 2-out splitter cords from Radio Shack) off the output of your mixer and straight into your recorder. Then you have the signal without mic'ing. However, it also depends on how much tone you would lose from your amps. Does your recorder allow for multiple inputs? You could run directs PLUS mics to get a nice mix of the effects without the speakers and the total package, then play with your mix until you have a balance that gives the most tone with the least foot pedal clicking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eti Posted August 12, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 12, 2014 Thanks. I'll come up with something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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