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  • #16
    So trebley=high, bassy = low? Louder=closer, quieter=further away?
    Hey

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    • #17
      Depth (front to back) and width (L/R) are two different mix parameters. You can have a very deep recording with no width (or lots of it), or a very wide (or narrow) recording with no depth. Depth does tend to be more difficult for novice mixers to achieve, but that doesn't mean that stereo imaging and panning are any less important...


      yep! I like to think 3-D:

      Top to Bottom (an eq thing)
      Front to Back (a reverb thing) and
      Left To Right (a panning thing)

      and then there's the volume thing which can change everything!
      ___________________
      !

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      • #18
        depends totally--i did an album where i went all beatles and mixed **************** all crazy:

        drums: right only
        bass: center
        guitar: left only
        vocals: right only
        other ****************: wherever

        doing stuff like that, imho, really allows stuff to breathe on their own--because each thing occupies their own space. it might be a little more challenging to listen to--especially on headphones--but i think it can sound great that way.

        if i'm not doing that, i generally revert to the standard:

        drums, bass, vocals: center
        guitars: panned out
        MAN for that kind of thing U got to go Back to the Old boxes from back when!! In those days we would bring are AMPS to the lake and wnen U tilt the Cab down by the water U can see the ****************in DENT it made! With the waves coming off it and Everything ****************!!!!! NOwadays they all play in there Dens and home bars or watever kind of **************** they get up to

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        • #19
          So trebley=high, bassy = low? Louder=closer, quieter=further away?


          Louder = closer
          Quieter = further away

          Brighter = closer
          Darker / more attenuated highs = further away

          Drier, with less verb = closer
          Wetter, with more verb = further away

          There are also other things that are crucial to our perception of depth and distance from a sound source. Indoors, the most crucial are probably early reflections. Their level, as well as other aspects of the early reflections (length, spacing, time before the onset of reverberation, etc.) give our ears / brain clues as to the character and size of the acoustical space that the instrument (or other sound source) is located within, as well as its placement within the room relative to the listener's position.
          **********

          "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

          - George Carlin

          "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

          - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

          "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

          - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

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          • #20
            One of my favorite artists, Robert Irwin, said that for him, his art was 1% inspiration and 99% ass-scratching. Mixing yourself is similar. A lot of pressing Play and pushing faders and inserting effects and twisting knobs to see what works, for you.

            I also think mixing yourself is like trying to blow yourself: Try all you might, you're not going to get There.

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            • #21
              One crucial aspect of microphone technique is knowing how far away to place the mikes. I have a saying I use a lot when working with students and interns: Distance equals depth. Get those microphones back a bit from the sound source and don't have the mikes within near-contact distance for each and every part of the song you record - that alone will go a long way towards increasing the depth of your recordings and mixes.

              Of course, you can't just do that randomly, or you've likely to wind up fighting yourself. If you want the lead vocal "in your face", then track it close to the mic, and maybe use some judicious compression. For the BGVs, try moving them back from the mic a bit when they're singing. Two or three feet can make all the difference in the world. Another thing that can help is mic selection. If you use a really upfront sounding mic for the lead vocalist (IOW, one with a prominent upper midrange presence peak in the 6-8kHz range) try using a flatter mic for the BGV's, or one with a much higher (~12kHz) peak to give them some "air" but to get them out of the way of the lead vocalist.
              **********

              "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

              - George Carlin

              "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

              - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

              "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

              - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

              Comment


              • #22


                I also think mixing yourself is like trying to blow yourself: Try all you might, you're not going to get There.


                Formerly known as Spoonie G.







                http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7874/spoileri.jpg

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                • #23
                  One of my favorite artists, Robert Irwin, said that for him, his art was 1% inspiration and 99% ass-scratching. Mixing yourself is similar. A lot of pressing Play and pushing faders and inserting effects and twisting knobs to see what works, for you.

                  I also think mixing yourself is like trying to blow yourself: Try all you might, you're not going to get There.


                  If you are really really flexible you might be able to mix yourself...
                  Hey

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    One crucial aspect of microphone technique is knowing how far away to place the mikes. I have a saying I use a lot when working with students and interns: Distance equals depth. Get those microphones back a bit from the sound source and don't have the mikes within near-contact distance for each and every part of the song you record - that alone will go a long way towards increasing the depth of your recordings and mixes.

                    Of course, you can't just do that randomly, or you've likely to wind up fighting yourself. If you want the lead vocal "in your face", then track it close to the mic, and maybe use some judicious compression. For the BGVs, try moving them back from the mic a bit when they're singing. Two or three feet can make all the difference in the world. Another thing that can help is mic selection. If you use a really upfront sounding mic for the lead vocalist (IOW, one with a prominent upper midrange presence peak in the 6-8kHz range) try using a flatter mic for the BGV's, or one with a much higher (~12kHz) peak to give them some "air" but to get them out of the way of the lead vocalist.


                    phil, i always love when you post studio advice from the tranches. i always try out the **************** you suggest like the same week.

                    awesome
                    Test Tech Wattson Classic ElectronicsEL KABONG wrote: I turned down $25 grand cash for gay sex.

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                    • #25
                      If you are really really flexible you might be able to mix yourself...


                      I had a friend in high school who had come across a statistic he liked to quote: 1 out of 100 of us, apparently, can blow themselves. And then he'd look down the hall both ways and speculate: Which one of us is it? Haha.

                      The larger point is if you can find someone you trust to give you honest and knowledgeable opinions of your mixes, grab hold and never let go. A good outside perspective can shorten the process from Endless Rabbit Holes to Something Ready For Moving On.

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                      • #26

                        There are also other things that are crucial to our perception of depth and distance from a sound source. Indoors, the most crucial are probably early reflections. Their level, as well as other aspects of the early reflections (length, spacing, time before the onset of reverberation, etc.) give our ears / brain clues as to the character and size of the acoustical space that the instrument (or other sound source) is located within, as well as its placement within the room relative to the listener's position.


                        And that is indeed where some of the art of mic placement comes in. Also, it means that it's a good idea to have some plan that you're shooting for before you start recording. If you decide that you want to make a record where the drums are up close, you can mic accordingly and it'll be much more convincing than if you mic it up in some random way and try to change the sound later in the mixing stage.


                        As far as panning, it is indeed whatever works for you and your aesthetic! What works for me is what I alluded to at the top of this post - Hard Left, Centre, or Hard Right for important mix elements. That's because I'm shooting for big sounding mixes. If I want something more subtle and mashed together I'll soft pan more. But what I find with hard panned/ centre mixes is that you can get powerful sounding mixes, but still have space in the soft panned areas for more subtle elements that might get lost on an equally busy mix where everything was soft panned.
                        Originally Posted by telephant


                        Tone is really half the argument. We both know ultimately it means nothing. Write a song. Write. A ****************ing. Song.



                        UK based band;
                        http://www.captainhorizon.co.uk

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                        • #27
                          If you listen to Radiohead's early albums they conform to the 'thom yorke's head' formula


                          I always thought this, but I was never quite sure I wasn't just making it up. I'd even go so far as to say that the bass is panned slightly to the left

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                          • #28
                            Let the instruments sit wherever they want to sit man, leave off.
                            http://soundcloud.com/hugespiders

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                            • #29
                              I appreciate the wisdom almost as much as the wise-assing.

                              The mic placement is interesting but for what I am up to now I am not sure if I can use it. My drums are vst Superior Drummer. It does have a mixer and mic options, but I doubt I can do any better than the presets at this time. My bass and all other instruments are recorded direct using a Roland GR-55 guitar synth. My guitar is my guitar-pedals into amp. I am micing the amp with a sm57. I could experiment with a 2nd mic, but for now the 57 is working out pretty good.

                              Anything else to help with mixing?
                              Hey

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                              • #30
                                It's completely up to you, there are no rules except ones you impose on yourself. If you listen to Radiohead's early albums they conform to the 'thom yorke's head' formula; thom's guitar & vocals, and the drums and bass are centered, with whatever johnny's doing panned left and whatever ed's doing panned right. It's a nice and simple way of quickly getting a mix that approximates the live sound.


                                This!

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