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OT: Why do I like master volume on 10 cleans better than a non-master volume amp?

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  • OT: Why do I like master volume on 10 cleans better than a non-master volume amp?

    Does diming the master volume and using the gain knob for volume do anything differently than not having a master volume at all?



    I really like the clean tone on a lot of amps I've tried this way, but I wasn't able to get this tone on my Traynor (non-MV) until I was playing around with a boost in the effects loop.



    This got me thinking- Is the Master Volume situated after some or all of the preamp tubes? The "post" moniker seems to suggest it... I assume the MV can only cut gain, right? Wide open is the same as bypassing it?



    I'm just trying to figure out why I like the tone of MV on 10 better than similar volumes with a non-MV amp...
    Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Traditional Pro, Epiphone Les Paul Standard (for sale), Fender Stratocaster, Ibanez AF75 (for sale), Alvarez Artist, Washburn Taurus, Fender Precision, Rogue MandolinAmps: Traynor YCV40WR, SWR LA12, Behringer BX3000T head/Steel Sound 2x12 bass cabPedals: Too many to list...Good deals: knives490, slufay, Jim Hunter, deadanddreaming, lank81, MickTaylorFan, jmecale72, billy budapest, melx, CRANK, Mdsmithii, juankyman

  • #2
    Generally, running a Master Volume all the way up is like having no Master at all.

    But also generally, most amps with a Master Volume probably have more gain and distortion available in the pre-amp. Yup, the Master usually is situated after the pre-amp tubes. Master Volume controls, when dimed, do add more gain overall, but it's less distortion than a cranked pre-amp. If you run the pre-amp gain at 10, then run the Master Volume at 2, the Master will not be adding much, if anything, to the dirt mix.

    In order to get a Master Volume to add gain (in the power amp) it will always be much much louder, unless you use an attenuator like a Power Soak or Hot Plate. Attenuators are different animals. They hook up between the amplifier output and the speaker itself.

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    • #3
      Play loud son
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      • #4
        I'm the same way, but now that I think of it, it's always been with 4x12's (master) vs. combos (non-master), so I might attribute some of it to the cab choice.
        Formerly known as Spoonie G.







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        • #5






          Quote Originally Posted by dkerwood
          View Post

          I'm just trying to figure out why I like the tone of MV on 10 better than similar volumes with a non-MV amp...




          Well, they're different amps... so it's hardly a controlled test. Too many other things are different when you're talking about two different amps, the master volume situation is only going to be a small part of the difference.



          My AC30 has a master volume bypass switch and it does make a small difference - it's a bit clearer sounding when the volume knob is out of the circuit. But that's because they used a certain value of volume pot which changes the sound even when maxed but gives a nice usable taper. If they'd used a different value pot there'd probably be no audible difference switched in or out.
          Originally Posted by telephant


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          • #6
            Doesn't your Traynor have a volume and gain knob?



            This model?






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            • #7






              Quote Originally Posted by LSDis4me
              View Post

              Doesn't your Traynor have a volume and gain knob?



              This model?






              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6b_BvJVR3c




              Hmmmm, no, mine is the 40 watter, and the clean channel only has a volume.







              Interesting, though. I know the YCV40 came first, so maybe the 20's controls reflect feedback from players? I know although the dual EQ controls are nice, I generally end up voicing both channels about the same. I think I'd prefer dual gain controls instead. Too bad the 20 is out of my price range for a smaller amp.
              Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Traditional Pro, Epiphone Les Paul Standard (for sale), Fender Stratocaster, Ibanez AF75 (for sale), Alvarez Artist, Washburn Taurus, Fender Precision, Rogue MandolinAmps: Traynor YCV40WR, SWR LA12, Behringer BX3000T head/Steel Sound 2x12 bass cabPedals: Too many to list...Good deals: knives490, slufay, Jim Hunter, deadanddreaming, lank81, MickTaylorFan, jmecale72, billy budapest, melx, CRANK, Mdsmithii, juankyman

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              • #8
                you can get it modded for Master Volume, i think.



                aren't Traynors big in the amp modding community?
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                • #9






                  Quote Originally Posted by Cirrus
                  View Post

                  Well, they're different amps... so it's hardly a controlled test. Too many other things are different when you're talking about two different amps, the master volume situation is only going to be a small part of the difference.




                  This is true, but I've noticed this across all brands and all amps. Peavey, Fender, Vox, Jet City... and those are just a few that I've tried recently. It's probably just in my head. I'm going to bring my Traynor to a rehearsal this afternoon to see if I can't coax some sweet cleans with a little bigger volume.
                  Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Traditional Pro, Epiphone Les Paul Standard (for sale), Fender Stratocaster, Ibanez AF75 (for sale), Alvarez Artist, Washburn Taurus, Fender Precision, Rogue MandolinAmps: Traynor YCV40WR, SWR LA12, Behringer BX3000T head/Steel Sound 2x12 bass cabPedals: Too many to list...Good deals: knives490, slufay, Jim Hunter, deadanddreaming, lank81, MickTaylorFan, jmecale72, billy budapest, melx, CRANK, Mdsmithii, juankyman

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                  • #10






                    Quote Originally Posted by Poltergeist
                    View Post

                    you can get it modded for Master Volume, i think.



                    aren't Traynors big in the amp modding community?




                    First I've heard of it. I may have to look into that. Of course, if all it does is insert a potentiometer in the circuit, there's really no point. :-)
                    Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Traditional Pro, Epiphone Les Paul Standard (for sale), Fender Stratocaster, Ibanez AF75 (for sale), Alvarez Artist, Washburn Taurus, Fender Precision, Rogue MandolinAmps: Traynor YCV40WR, SWR LA12, Behringer BX3000T head/Steel Sound 2x12 bass cabPedals: Too many to list...Good deals: knives490, slufay, Jim Hunter, deadanddreaming, lank81, MickTaylorFan, jmecale72, billy budapest, melx, CRANK, Mdsmithii, juankyman

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                    • #11
                      i'm with you OP. every amp should have a master volume. ridiculous to me that many don't...its quite a useful control too
                      YᵒᵘOᶰˡʸLᶤᵛᵉ OᶰᶜᵉRobopimp wrote:Chat crüe is srs crüeFor Sale: Ibanez DML-10, Boss TW-1, Boss FZ-2/3Good deals with: Duderanimous, Overwhelmed987, Jules-RM, DoubleBarrel, HotRats, Fusion1, IRG, barney steele, Aaron SS, Urinate Forever, Raintes, crowquill, Blakemore Effects, Aimmar Cair, lefort_1, killthelights, 9720575 (CHUCK!)

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                      • #12






                        Quote Originally Posted by Poltergeist
                        View Post

                        you can get it modded for Master Volume, i think.



                        aren't Traynors big in the amp modding community?




                        the old ones from the 70s were. Looks like he has a modern YCV40, which looks like a DVD player on the inside if it's anything like the YCV50 I had.
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                        • #13
                          I played with the dirty channel on my Traynor today before rehearsal, maxing the volume and setting volume with the gain. The channel is voiced for quick breakup, which results in a more mid-heavy tone, but it's actually quite nice. I was able to get a nice rich tone with just my guitar tone knob without completely jacking up the EQ knobs. I also got a great tone out of my clean channel.



                          Part of the problem I was having was due to limitations of volume in my practice room. A 40W tube combo in a 10x12 room with hard floors is ridiculously loud. The rehearsal space is a much bigger area with higher ceilings and carpet. Thus, I could put some juice into the amp and get those tubes working. All the amps I've been demoing lately have been lower wattage (I'm shopping for a grab-and-go combo or head/cab), so they get the tubes rocking before it gets too loud.
                          Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Traditional Pro, Epiphone Les Paul Standard (for sale), Fender Stratocaster, Ibanez AF75 (for sale), Alvarez Artist, Washburn Taurus, Fender Precision, Rogue MandolinAmps: Traynor YCV40WR, SWR LA12, Behringer BX3000T head/Steel Sound 2x12 bass cabPedals: Too many to list...Good deals: knives490, slufay, Jim Hunter, deadanddreaming, lank81, MickTaylorFan, jmecale72, billy budapest, melx, CRANK, Mdsmithii, juankyman

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