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When a riff becomes songworthy...


pinkzep52

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So considering this is the effects forum, I'm sure most people here do lots and lots of noodling. For you, when does an improvised riff become potential for a written song? Given the simplicity of some of riffs in some of the most respected songs, how do you sort through the riffs that have potential (as most people who noodle alot find) vs the ones that actually end up going somewhere? What qualities make you realize "thats the one!"? What do you look for?

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I like the question thumb.gif


In my experience, songs can begin with just about anything... a riff, a word pair, a chord progression, a beat, a concept, a sound... whatever. But building a song is rarely a process that occurs in a quick and linear manner for me. I might come up with a great riff and have no idea what to do with it, so I'll sit on it indefinitely until it fits somewhere. Maybe 2 years later I'll come up with a lyrical verse and basic chord progression. Then several months later again I might realize that the riff works nicely with the verse.


That's how my creative process works. My basic philosophy is don't force anything, and don't throw any ideas away. Eventually the puzzle will come together.

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I like this question too, and don't often participate in song writing stuff, because I don't feel I have much to offer. But I have a couple of riffs and chord progressions I've been working on lately that I really like, and I kinda hope it falls into some sort of song, eventually. Need to start recording these moments somehow too, before I forget.

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Quote Originally Posted by Fender&EHX4ever

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I like the question thumb.gif


In my experience, songs can begin with just about anything... a riff, a word pair, a chord progression, a beat, a concept, a sound... whatever. But building a song is rarely a process that occurs in a quick and linear manner for me. I might come up with a great riff and have no idea what to do with it, so I'll sit on it indefinitely until it fits somewhere. Maybe 2 years later I'll come up with a lyrical verse and basic chord progression. Then several months later again I might realize that the riff works nicely with the verse.


That's how my creative process works. My basic philosophy is don't force anything, and don't throw any ideas away. Eventually the puzzle will come together.

 

this is pretty close to how i feel. i do, however, think the best songs i've ever written/been a part of writing, just pour out all at once. there'e always editing and finessing, but a good song on its own usually just manifests itself.
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Quote Originally Posted by AxAxSxS

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noodle doodle (drummer foins in)

doodle noodle (bassist joins in)

Jam on it a bit

We all change together to something new.


BAM! song potential

 

+1

no matter who starts, if the others join in, there is some potential

then if it evolves right away there is even more potential

if we can still remember next rehearsal what we played and can do it again, it might be a candidate for a new song


and then a long hard road starts, making out of this idea/jam/riff/chord progression a real song, which can last months, a lot of jams over the same idea, maybe some lyrics fit or can be found, some thought about structuring and arrangement will come and ultimately there will be a new song


if we can't remember what we played last time, it was not worth keeping

yes a lot of ideas get lost on this road, but for the most there will be another one and strangle with something where the others have troubles to "join in" is waste of time

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I write pretty much primarily on PC so its pretty apparent. If you come back the next morning and it still sounds good, its a keeper. lots of stuff that sounded good at the time doesent later.


Also, I find when writing I tend to hit a "break point" sometimes, where a song starts off as one thing but then often it turns into something that's potentially better, and at that point you got to kill the original. Not every idea you work on has to be a keeper, sometimes its just there to get the ball rolling.

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Lots of good posts. To the OP: I know a riff is songworthy when it sticks in my mind. I'll be taking a shower, or sitting in an airport, or etc., and the riff comes into my mind.


One thing that really helps with the process is trying real hard to listen to oneself as if it isn't YOU playing; do I like this? I make music that I would like to listen to. It can become difficult to hear the gap between one's imagining of a song and the reality sometimes.


I am also a proponent of songwriting as a process/exercise - just as I completely agree with EHX&Fender that songs come from all kinds of musical sources, I also think you can develop tunes by applying lessons learned from grizzled pros, like transposing the 3rd verse up a half-step, dropping to half time on a bridge, etc. Those might sound like "cheap tricks" (God, I love that band) but they WORK, and if your riff or song idea gets run through them, it can help take the song in a different direction and suggest all kinds of new ideas.

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