Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Best Amp for being mic’d up?

Collapse
X
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Best Amp for being mic’d up?

    Hey guys, I don’t know if this is the right section to post this in, but I am looking at either a blackstar ht studio 20 combo or blackstar ht club 40 combo. I have a JCM800 2203 with a 2x12 cab. I relieved that is too big for some of the venues I will be playing. Everything is mic’d up & I want to try to get the most out of the amp. I have listened to both amps & like both, but I don’t know which one will be more beneficial, I am afraid the 40 will still be too loud, but I want more control out of the amp as well. Can someone with more gigging experience help me out with this situation. Please and thank you guys in advance for the responses.

  • #2
    Originally posted by payton.piglia View Post
    Hey guys, I don’t know if this is the right section to post this in, but I am looking at either a blackstar ht studio 20 combo or blackstar ht club 40 combo. I have a JCM800 2203 with a 2x12 cab. I relieved that is too big for some of the venues I will be playing. Everything is mic’d up & I want to try to get the most out of the amp. I have listened to both amps & like both, but I don’t know which one will be more beneficial, I am afraid the 40 will still be too loud, but I want more control out of the amp as well. Can someone with more gigging experience help me out with this situation. Please and thank you guys in advance for the responses.
    40 watts may be too much. I have a DR Z Maz 18 that is pretty damn loud.

    I'd order one through MF or Sweetwater. They have a nice return policy if you need the bigger one.
    All you need to do s hear yourself and compete with the drummer..

    _____________________________________
    Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase.

    Join Date: Aug 2001
    Location: N. Adams, MA USA
    Posts as of Jan 10th 2013: 82,617

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mikeo View Post
      40 watts may be too much. I have a DR Z Maz 18 that is pretty damn loud.
      My 18 watt Marshall doesn't get used without the weber MiniMass. OP, if you are going to mic I would NEVER buy a 40 watt amp. I would be looking at a 15 watt or less probably.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Axisplayer View Post
        My 18 watt Marshall doesn't get used without the weber MiniMass. OP, if you are going to mic I would NEVER buy a 40 watt amp. I would be looking at a 15 watt or less probably.
        Blackstar doesn't make a 15 Watter but there's a 10 Watt anniversary model. It should be okay miked and if not the OP can always swap out the stock Seventy 80 for something with higher sensitivity.
        Official HCAG “Theory-Challenged Hack”
        Member of the IBANEZ ACOUSTIC ASSASSINS
        Proud Member of The Alvarez Alliance
        Member of the Schecter Society
        Person-2-Person on the Web

        Comment


        • #5
          Thank you guys for the swift reply & great info. Mikeo, I will try to get with the drummer & see if we could meet up soon & try it out & see what works. I can play my JCM800 at low volumes but I want an amp I can get the most out of it. Something I can have the most head room & best possible tone as well. The Blackstar amps have a really nice sound, if anyone has any other amp that they want to throw out there, I am going to go to guitar center this weekend & play with a few & see what is best. I am trying to find a sound very similar to the JCM800 just in a small amp for the small venues.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'd need to ask if you are using pedals for your drive tones and running the amp clean or are you cranking the amp to get saturated tones from the amp itself.

            If you're cranking the amp then a lower wattage amp should do the job. If you use pedals then a louder amp simply turned down will do the job too.

            Its important to know what kind of recording setup you have. A 40W amp should allow playing live with a drummer and being heard. If the amp has a master volume and gain channel it may still be fine for recording. It does depend on you studio setup and gear used and techniques used to record things.

            Having a loud amp in the same room as your recording gear can cause tracking issues. Its the decibel level not the wattage that causes the problems. An amp cranked loud will bleed through most headphones and be heard as muffled tones added to what you're already hearing from the mic. The headphone bleed will make you think you have more low end then you actually do so you wind up dialing the bass down and wind up with thin sounding tracks.

            It can also make it difficult to hear previously recorded tracks which means cranking the headphones up and then you're dealing with fatigued ears and gain staging mistakes tracking. Ideally you want to always monitor at the industry standard of 83dB which is about as loud as most people watch TV. You can be heard talking over it with a minimal raised voice.

            Your amp can be louder but the bleed through headphones forces you to make bad tracking decisions and even though you may be close micing the reflections captured by a mic don't help.

            In a pro studio where you have a separate room for the recording gear and performers gear an engineer can tweak the sound he's hearing in isolation. If its all in the same room then using an iso cab over the amp and mic can help with a loud amp. The louder amp usually has the benefit of producing rich bass tones and crystal clean guitar chords at lower volumes. I typically use them for rhythm parts

            Low wattage tube amps can be great for leads and power cords when cranked up because you get compression from the power tube, transformer and speaker. The problem with most small practice amps is the amps nor the speakers sound very good. I've used amps with 8" speakers and they can be OK for some lead guitar parts but chords sound really thin. Personally I prefer something with at least a 10" speaker so it will sound good for leads or chords and blend into a mix without using gobs of EQ to try and fix things.

            The amp itself can be a single ended tube amp or low wattage push pull. 10W is plenty. Even 1W will do so long as the quality is great and background noise is low. Mics have all the gain in the world. You can crank them up to hear a pin drop so loudness isn't what's important, its the quality of the sound at any given volume level. You can use a power soak device on a louder amp but your tone and gain staging are affected.

            My best advice is for playing live, and amp in the 30/50W range is usually ideal playing with a live drummer doing rock music. if you have a good PA and mic the amp you can go lower. For recording you ideally want a lower wattage amp that sounds rally good at lower volumes. What I mean by really good does not include the use of pedals or gain channels to synthesize the sound of a loud amp, I mean a low wattage tube amp with a low wattage speaker cranked up to get the preamp to overdrive the power amp and added speaker saturation.

            I will say those kinds of amps are in high demand and are quite expensive. Don't ask me why. I been an electronic tech all my life and know single ended class A amps are one of the least expensive amps to build, but only a handful of them are currently being made. Luckily there enough where you don't have to dig too deep.

            You can find a 5W for under $200 which will do the job very well. Monoprice makes a 5W combo for $89 Its only got an 8" speaker but you could plug it into something larger. They also make an improved 15W for $179 that comes with a 12" Celestion which would be ideal for my needs since I have a fairly good studio with decent isolation. https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_...SABEgLlLfD_BwE Jet city makes a 5W head for under $200 as do several others.

            Like I said, many have small 8's. If you shop for 8" speakers you'll see the variety and specs on them are extremely limited. On the other hand, a 5W single ended tube am pushing a low wattage alnico can put you in recording heaven, and that's before you add any additional pedals to enhance what you already have.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by payton.piglia View Post
              Thank you guys for the swift reply & great info. Mikeo, I will try to get with the drummer & see if we could meet up soon & try it out & see what works. I can play my JCM800 at low volumes but I want an amp I can get the most out of it. Something I can have the most head room & best possible tone as well. The Blackstar amps have a really nice sound, if anyone has any other amp that they want to throw out there, I am going to go to guitar center this weekend & play with a few & see what is best. I am trying to find a sound very similar to the JCM800 just in a small amp for the small venues.
              Hey if money is not an issue. I have seen em on stage, but have not played through one.
              They have power scaling on them.

              You'd push the front end with pedals.

              In any case Black star makes a great sounding amp for the coin.




              _____________________________________
              Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase.

              Join Date: Aug 2001
              Location: N. Adams, MA USA
              Posts as of Jan 10th 2013: 82,617

              Comment


              • #8
                Alright, don’t mean to go on a rig rundown. But I have a Boss Tu-3W, Rocktron Talkbox, Dunlop Slash Wah, MXR Phase 90, MXR Dyna Comp, CAE Boost/Line Driver, Boss Harmonist, Boss Super Chorus, Boss DD-7 Delay, & Dunlop Volume Pedal. I use the Boost & Dyna Comp the most when playing. Usually when I play the JCM800 in my room its usually on 1 & it has a nice crunch but I kicked the dyna comp & boost on to get more out of the amp

                Comment


                • #9
                  Anything in the 5-15W range should do a great job for you if it's miked up. Anything much larger than that will be overkill, just like your JCM800. Fortunately there are a ton of different amps in that wattage range for you to select from - all you need to do is find the one you like the sound of the most, and you're all set.
                  **********

                  "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

                  - George Carlin

                  "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

                  - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                  "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

                  - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The fact that you have and like a JCM800 indicates you like the Marshall sound. The DSL series of combo amps includes models like the DSL15C (15 Watts 1X12), DSL20CR (20 Watts 1X12), and DSL40 (40 Watts 1X12). Pricing will be $600-700.
                    Official HCAG “Theory-Challenged Hack”
                    Member of the IBANEZ ACOUSTIC ASSASSINS
                    Proud Member of The Alvarez Alliance
                    Member of the Schecter Society
                    Person-2-Person on the Web

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have and gig with a HT20, and I think, given your predilection for Marshall heads, this amp will get you into the Marshall sound, as well as a number of others. At 20W it will keep up with an 'intelligent' drummer, and both channels have their own 'thang'. That said, I also gig with a Vox NightTrain 15W, Fender Blues Juniors, a Crate V20 [using a pedalboard]...so there are plenty of amps out there that will get you where you want to be as far a 'not too loud' [although, a 100W head isn't 6+ times louder than a 15W or 5 times louder than a 20W]. Frankly, the 100W heads were developed in a bygone era, when PAs were crap...not the case in the 21st century, so it may be time to kick your dinosaur JCM back to the Jurrassic era, and get a combo that mics up well. You can spend a lot of dinero on boutique amps, too...Carr, Swart, Bad Cat, Jaguar, Top Hat, Dr. Z and so on...
                      "We are currently experiencing some technical difficulties due to reality fluctuations. The elves are working tirelessly to patch the correct version of reality. Activities here have been temporarily disabled since the fundamentals of mathematics, physics and reason may be incomprehensible during this indeterminate period of instability. Normal service will be restored once we are certain as to what 'normal' is."

                      Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally used up and worn out, shouting '...man, what a ride!'
                      "The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively" ~Bob Marley

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by daddymack View Post
                        . . . there are plenty of amps out there that will get you where you want to be as far a 'not too loud' [although, a 100W head isn't 6+ times louder than a 15W or 5 times louder than a 20W]. . . .
                        15:100 is a bit more than 8 dB, close to what the ear perceives as "twice as loud" (10 dB). 20:100 is about 7 dB. You can often gain 3 dB or more just by swapping speakers.
                        Official HCAG “Theory-Challenged Hack”
                        Member of the IBANEZ ACOUSTIC ASSASSINS
                        Proud Member of The Alvarez Alliance
                        Member of the Schecter Society
                        Person-2-Person on the Web

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DeepEnd View Post
                          The fact that you have and like a JCM800 indicates you like the Marshall sound. The DSL series of combo amps includes models like the DSL15C (15 Watts 1X12), DSL20CR (20 Watts 1X12), and DSL40 (40 Watts 1X12). Pricing will be $600-700.

                          Good recommendations IMO. Any of those should be plenty loud enough for a miked-up situation. Even a Class 5 running flat out can hit upwards of 107dB SPL @ 2m.

                          http://www.harmonycentral.com/expert...-5w-guitar-amp

                          **********

                          "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

                          - George Carlin

                          "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

                          - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                          "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

                          - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            i bought a Dr Z M-12 and it’s probably the last amp I’ll ever get. I love it. And at 12 watts, I’m able to make it work nicely in a small room yet I’ve played gigs to 2000+ people with no issues. I learned a long time ago to let the sound guy and the PA do their jobs. No need for crazy loud stage volumes.
                            ****************

                            Jason
                            My band: http://www.facebook.com/thetrickydickies

                            "Do or do not. There is no try" - Yoda

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TrickyBoy View Post
                              i bought a Dr Z M-12 and it’s probably the last amp I’ll ever get. I love it. And at 12 watts, I’m able to make it work nicely in a small room yet I’ve played gigs to 2000+ people with no issues. I learned a long time ago to let the sound guy and the PA do their jobs. No need for crazy loud stage volumes.
                              Excellent choice, and nice building block, as it take pedals very well.
                              _____________________________________
                              Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase.

                              Join Date: Aug 2001
                              Location: N. Adams, MA USA
                              Posts as of Jan 10th 2013: 82,617

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X