Members jjang1993 Posted December 16, 2017 Members Share Posted December 16, 2017 Hey everyone, I'm on the market for a different speaker for my Fender Deluxe 112 amp. Now, I like brighter guitar tones, but the brightness on this amp can be borderline ice pick like, leaving you between two choices, use the ice pick brightness, or roll the treble back and get a really muddy sound. I was looking forward to getting a Henriksen Bud to replace this amp as my solid state backup/change of pace amp to my tube amp, but unforeseen financial circumstances have all but put those plans on hold for a while. Does anyone have some speaker recommendations that will go a long way in mellowing out the high end of this amp? I currently have an Eminence Red White and Blues. but even after breaking it in, it still sounds almost the same as the stock speaker but with a little more low mids. I've considered the Cannabis Rex, but that speaker is only rated at 50W and this is a 65W amp. Any help would be very much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted December 16, 2017 Members Share Posted December 16, 2017 If you're going to stick with Eminence the manufacturer provides frequency response charts which tell you exactly what you need to know. You can go here and look at the rest of the manufacturers frequency charts. https://www.parts-express.com/cat/gu...%5D&PortalID=1 These are the key to finding something more suitable. Since you already know what the red White and blue do for that amp you can use it as a reference finding what you need. The left vertical scale is decibels in loudness. The left to right bottom scale is your frequencies from 20 to 20,000Hz. Guitar frequencies are important between 80 and 5Khz. Above and below aren't utilized much in most guitar cabs/speakers. Its what's between those two points that's important. 5K is what a very bright Marshall produces and it soften sound good with speakers that attenuate those highs like Green Backs. Fender tube amps tend to get their best drive better in the 3/4K ranges. Their SS amps tend to have ice pick tones in those ranges because they have no tube compression. You can usually improve their tone by using a speaker that attenuates those tones a bit instead of boosting them even more. I did this on my Old Fender M-80 and it greatly improved my mid tones while softening the highs. They are still there but I can use the full range of the amps EQ without having anything overbearing. I can set everything to the middle at 12 o'clock and sound natural which is how most amps are designed to run. If I had to run the EQ at either extreme, either boosting things too much or attenuating the knobs way down then I know the speakers are a poor match. This is the frequency response of your Red White and Blue. You can see the large hump in frequencies between 1.5K and 4.5K that's giving you those ice pick tones. To get rid of them you need to find a speaker that doesn't have that large bump. [ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"004 RWB.JPG","data-attachmentid":32120941}[/ATTACH] The Cannabis Rex isn't much better, in fact the bump has an even higher at around 2.5Khz and only marginal differences in high frequencies. if ice pick tones are your problem, this sure as hell wouldn't be a cure. [ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"003 Rex.JPG","data-attachmentid":32120942}[/ATTACH] The Swamp thing is even worse. Its got a 2.5K bump above 110dB and a roll off at 5K that will likely make your ears bleed. Its got a dip at 1.5K which is going to weaken your mids too. The Eminence Hempdog likely has something closer to what you're looking for. Its got a treble boost like most guitar speakers do but its much more gradual/linear. It also begins drop down at around 3.5 / 4Khz Id think this speaker should do well attenuating the ice pick tones on a Fender and an you could still crank those highs on the amp itself without being overwhelmed. [ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"002.JPG","data-attachmentid":32120943}[/ATTACH] The American Tone Eminence seems like a good choice too. It hasn't got that huge bump like the RWB does but this one should still give you decent highs. [ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"001.JPG","data-attachmentid":32120944}[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted December 17, 2017 Members Share Posted December 17, 2017 I'm going to add the Jensen C12K. It still has a moderate high end hump but it has fairly strong bass which should balance the high end better. Bear in mind you'll lose a couple dB sensitivity compared to the Red White and Blues: [ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"C12K.jpg","data-attachmentid":32121718}[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted December 19, 2017 Members Share Posted December 19, 2017 I'm going to add the Jensen C12K. It still has a moderate high end hump but it has fairly strong bass which should balance the high end better. Bear in mind you'll lose a couple dB sensitivity compared to the Red White and Blues: [ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"C12K.jpg","data-attachmentid":32121718}[/ATTACH] Yes those are meat and potato's for fender amps. They were what was used when they designed the tone circuits in the amps so you pretty much get a neutral sound with all the tone controls set in the middle. I can say some of the vintage Jensen's didn't age very well and they weren't noted for having the best SPL levels. That's why they made the option to upgrade the speakers to Altecs and JBL's which both kicked ass on Fender amps. The newer Jensen's made in Italy aren't the same animal as the ones that were made in the US, but they are likely the closest you'll find in a reissue of the originals given the fact they've recreated the original design as closely as they have. Of course with newer Fender amps, Fender uses its own speakers, likely manufactured in the orient at this point. Any tone shaping done to modern amps including the choices of parts would be based on tweaking the circuits to their own speakers at this point, not that there would be a huge difference between a modern Jensen ceramic and Fender speaker, but it might be enough to notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted December 19, 2017 Members Share Posted December 19, 2017 Yes those are meat and potato's for fender amps. . . . . . . Of course with newer Fender amps, Fender uses its own speakers, likely manufactured in the orient at this point. Any tone shaping done to modern amps including the choices of parts would be based on tweaking the circuits to their own speakers at this point, not that there would be a huge difference between a modern Jensen ceramic and Fender speaker, but it might be enough to notice. As you said, Jensen pretty much has "Fender" written all over it. The 112 Deluxe--or at least the 112 Deluxe Plus--has a "Fender Special Design 12" 4Ω (P/N 048878)" speaker. Whatever the OP gets should be 4Ω and able to handle the amp's 94 Watts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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