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buying used amps


mbengs1

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is it advisable to buy used amps instead of getting a brand new one ? the way i see it, used amps might have issues but these can be fixed by a capable amp repair person. i have two main amps and theyre both used. but should i buy a new one in the future? i want a 100 watt jcm800 half stack actually.

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Well, kaibigan, there are two schools of thought, both valid.

Odds are buying a used amp means you are buying something someone has decided is not getting the job done. But you will definitely save a chunk of change.

Buying a new amp means you get the learning curve, that 'new amp smell', the warranty and the MSRP that goes with it

 

...unless you wait for it to be a 'close out'.

 

That said, of the last 3 amps I bought, one was used, two were close outs. Which ones am I happiest with? The closeouts. Which one have I spent time on with tube swaps, speaker changes, etc? The used one.

 

Just FYI, the age of the dinosaurs is over. Halfstack amps, 100w heads, all that are totally unnecessary. Why you would want to haul that much gear around in the name of unusable volume is beyond me.

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Here in the US an amp like what you want will cost well over $3000 new and, as daddymack said, it's totally unnecessary for just about any venue. FWIW, all my amps have been bought used: three guitar amps and a bass amp plus two more amps I bought for friends. All have been relatively trouble free.

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While there is risks involved in buying used gear, most musicians who sell they're used gear tend to be honest. If anything its the non musicians selling gear you have to be more careful about.

 

Places like EBay do a good job filtering out the scam artists because they can charge the seller back if the buyer gets scammed by someone selling defective gear as good. Most sellers want to keep high ratings too so its in they're best interest to be honest with they're sales. If you read something like, "I have no idea what this is so I'm selling it as is with no refunds" you have a high chance it's non functional.

 

Gear owners do tend to be honest. I've bought used gear for most of my life, in fact I can only think of two amps I've bought new during my entire lifetime. I'm an actual certified tech however and can afford to take risks on gear others cant. Even there I prefer to buy gear that's fully functional whenever possible. (Its too much like work having to do my own repairs)

 

Musicians turn over gear allot. Beginners regularly buy the wrong gear to suit they're needs based on popularity or idol worship. Sometimes they simply have an amp sitting there collecting dust because its too loud for most gigs or maybe they get married and they're wives make them sell it. Working musicians are always in need of cash, I know I did. Other times they simply want to try another brand on a quest to find they're own unique tone.

 

Whatever the reason, you can find great buys, but it isn't always easy being in the right place at the right time.

 

When I buy basic amps I have a rule of thumb I use which has worked out well for me. I pay between $1~$2 a watt for SS amp heads and up to $3 a watt for combos on used gear.

 

This can change depending on the popularity. Tube heads can be $5~$10 a watt, but given the scarcity of good used heads they often sell for more. Last one I bought was a 1976 60w Music Man head in mint condition. It wasn't working and the seller was moving out of state so he needed cash fast. I bought it as a seal sweetener for a bundle of rack gear which I paid $200 for and he essentially gave me the head. I found 2 cold solder joints and it was running like new.

 

If your plans are to buy a used Marshall you'll likely make out with a well maintained head. The amps are in the highest demand and anyone who owns one is likely to keep it in good shape, at least electronically. The exteriors are often well worn from allot of gigging. Tube amps are really easy to repair so even if it needs a cap job and tubes, its par for the course. Finding one at a reasonable cost is the hard part because most owners hang onto them and they know what they sell for. You have to be constantly looking and ready to buy when a good deal comes up and ready to walk away when its overpriced.

 

I would buy the head and cab separate. You can buy Marshall cabs at very low costs. Replacing the Grill cloth is very easy too. I found a slant 1960 with 4 X 75W cream backs for $400. The grill cloth was that ugly brown burlap which was beat and saggy. I bought a yard of the black and white Marshall weave and had it replaced in an hour and it looks great. Had enough to replace the cloth on the head to make it match too.

 

You should be able to find a JMC 800 for around $1000 and buy a can for $500.

 

Here's a head at Guitar center for a grand and since its a big named store you have some kind of a warrantee http://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Marshall/JCM800-Tube-Guitar-Amp-Head-112938798.gc?cntry=us&source=4WWRWXGP&gclid=CI2in7yosNICFYM8gQodY2EEZw&kwid=productads-adid^66736785762-device^c-plaid^172968151962-sku^112938798@ADL4GC-adType^PLA

 

Here's a 1960 can for $650. Has that same ugly cloth like mine. Not sure what speakers it has, you'd need to check. The cabs are factory rated for 300W but its hard to know because people often swap out the speakers. http://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Marshall/Vintage-1986-Marshall-JCM800-1960A-Cab-Guitar-Cabinet.gc?cntry=us&source=4WWRWXGP&gclid=COPB-d2osNICFUc6gQodf4QEDg&kwid=productads-adid^66736785762-device^c-plaid^140858841141-sku^112845335@ADL4GC-adType^PLA

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the drawback for mbengs is he is not in the US, he is in the Philippines. That used to be an interesting market when there were numerous US military bases there. Lots of gear common here and Japan made its way there. Not so anymore, as the bases are gone; now it is the 'balikbayans' [ex-pats] moving back home to retire who bring gear, and they tend to hold on to it. Shipping costs from the US to the PI are prohibitive, unless you can fill a 20' container.

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I actually used to haul a Marshall SL100 and a 4x12 slant cab to gigs back in the late 70's, before PA systems came into their own. Back then big was better... and I was doing mainly outdoor gigs; but as we know now, a 100w tube amp is not five times louder than a 20w tube amp, nor twice as loud as a 50w tube amp...but a wide open 100w tube amp is going to be far too loud for almost any indoor venue, and certainly will deafen the band members.

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is it advisable to buy used amps instead of getting a brand new one ? the way i see it' date=' used amps might have issues but these can be fixed by a capable amp repair person. i have two main amps and theyre both used. but should i buy a new one in the future? i want a 100 watt jcm800 half stack actually.[/quote']

 

 

 

I have a very old JCM 800, how ever mine is a 2x12 50 watt combo. Model 4104, if you really want to know.

 

They don't make these any more and have not for a long time. I used to use this and a Fender Twin Reveb.

 

They were not cheap in 1983 when I bought it, and folks that want them to this day, really want them and are willing to pay a pretty penny for them.

 

Mine has no channel switching, but they did make ones that had channel switching on them.

 

The cleans are not that sweet, but as you start turning up the gain on the amp it shine. The gain is not super high, but they have a sweet sound.

 

 

Personally , there are better choice out there these days that will give you a similar sound, but better. Probably cost you a lot less too.

 

I will post some options when I get back to he office.

 

Unfortunately you are not in the USA, because I am more familiar with USA manufactures that others out there.

 

 

I have owned a few used amp over my life time, but I buy mostly new gear. Trouble free, and I take care of my stuff the way I like it to look.

 

 

marshall-4104-jcm800-master-volume-lead-1981-1989-192601.jpg

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Oh coarse I get back to work and things got busy.

 

Before I'd run out and look for a Marshall I look at these amps.

 

http://www.ceriatone.com/british-style-jcm800-2203-hw/

 

[video=youtube;rB7JTmzcu5c]

 

http://www.retrokingamps.com/plexi100.htm

[video=youtube;84348T8yPV8]

 

You will pee your pants

https://reverb.com/item/3514934-bogner-shiva-80w-head-used?gclid=CjwKEAiAuc_FBRD7_JCM3NSY92wSJABbVoxBwJV 3HvKuQRnRpOF726hKuN8EURAzb5odDCncMzEkRBoCjy3w_wcB&pla=1

[video=youtube;-f3ANIms07U]

 

https://reverb.com/item/2821107-fargen-custom-shop-olde-800-mk-ii-50w-with-fx-loop-just-built?gclid=CjwKEAiAuc_FBRD7_JCM3NSY92wSJABbVoxB--92atpYLQyrCk7ME-I_stOWky5mBBS-LcbF__deixoCLgvw_wcB&pla=1

[video=youtube;c1rCNAiEvEg]

 

Owned the combo of this guy

amazing, but it weight 100 lbs

https://reverb.com/p/mesa-boogie-dual-rectifier-trem-o-verb-head?gclid=CjwKEAiAuc_FBRD7_JCM3NSY92wSJABbVoxBXVo rhhvdi2YZmAmICKDjI-t5nc2YqMx_lS8rL3VkORoCPYPw_wcB&hfid=3961077

[video=youtube;LY1NY2MgsNU]

 

 

Others you might not want to spring the coin for, but they are good stuff

https://www.germinoamplification.com/monterey-100

 

http://friedmanamplification.com/heads/be-100-head

 

[video=youtube;CEW1bqpqYlw]

[video=youtube;qq-2FAx98tc]

 

 

 

Enjoy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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is it advisable to buy used amps instead of getting a brand new one ? the way i see it' date=' used amps might have issues but these can be fixed by a capable amp repair person. i have two main amps and theyre both used. but should i buy a new one in the future? i want a 100 watt jcm800 half stack actually.[/quote']

 

I've had pretty good luck buying used, but did get one lemon in recent years, so it is a crap shoot sometimes.

 

Here are some examples of amp purchases I've made:

 

1) Mesa Boogie TA-15 TransAtlantic head. Purchased New in 2010 and I love it! No regrets.

 

2) Mesa Boogie TA-30 TransAtlantic head. Purchased used last year. Got it for a good price but had to replace all the tubes, otherwise no complaints.

 

3) Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue. Bought about three years ago. Couldn't get a good sound out of this thing no matter what I did. Sold last year and haven't missed it since.

 

4) Carvin X60 Combo. Bought used back in the 90's and still sounds fantastic!

 

So, there you go...

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techs here are now capable of fixing tube amps. so its convenient to get a used amp and have it fixed its its broken. but i havent made a serious amp purchase. i need at least a hundred watts. and at least a 2x12 cabinet. preferably new...

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I've had pretty good luck buying used, but did get one lemon in recent years, so it is a crap shoot sometimes.

 

Here are some examples of amp purchases I've made:

 

1) Mesa Boogie TA-15 TransAtlantic head. Purchased New in 2010 and I love it! No regrets.

 

2) Mesa Boogie TA-30 TransAtlantic head. Purchased used last year. Got it for a good price but had to replace all the tubes, otherwise no complaints.

 

3) Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue. Bought about three years ago. Couldn't get a good sound out of this thing no matter what I did. Sold last year and haven't missed it since.

 

4) Carvin X60 Combo. Bought used back in the 90's and still sounds fantastic!

 

So, there you go...

 

I bought a Carvin X-100 B back in 1986, when my Marshall JCM-800 head blew out.

The X-100 B was only going to be temporary as my Marshall was going through repairs.

I still own both, but the Carvin blow the Marshall away , by a long shot.

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I've had pretty good luck buying used, but did get one lemon in recent years, so it is a crap shoot sometimes.

 

Here are some examples of amp purchases I've made:

 

1) Mesa Boogie TA-15 TransAtlantic head. Purchased New in 2010 and I love it! No regrets.

 

2) Mesa Boogie TA-30 TransAtlantic head. Purchased used last year. Got it for a good price but had to replace all the tubes, otherwise no complaints.

 

3) Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue. Bought about three years ago. Couldn't get a good sound out of this thing no matter what I did. Sold last year and haven't missed it since.

 

4) Carvin X60 Combo. Bought used back in the 90's and still sounds fantastic!

 

So, there you go...

 

 

 

I had a Fender Blues Deluxe, that I bought back in the 90's. They were made in Corona back then and I loved the thing. Owned a Carin x60 1-12 combo, that I thought was nothing special.

 

Different strokes for different folks.

 

I do like the Trans Amps

 

 

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techs here are now capable of fixing tube amps. so its convenient to get a used amp and have it fixed its its broken. but i havent made a serious amp purchase. i need at least a hundred watts. and at least a 2x12 cabinet. preferably new...

 

Why do you think you need at least 100 watts?

Do you need to play that loud and project for half a mile?

Do you wear ear protection when you play? If not, you will need to...

Capable is one thing, able to get top quality tubes and electronic components, transformers, etc. is maybe a little iffier.

Plus an amp like that will not work well for your jazz learning experience.

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Why do you think you need at least 100 watts?

Do you need to play that loud and project for half a mile?

Do you wear ear protection when you play? If not, you will need to...

Capable is one thing, able to get top quality tubes and electronic components, transformers, etc. is maybe a little iffier.

Plus an amp like that will not work well for your jazz learning experience.

 

 

 

I have owned a few 100 watt amps. Crazy not that I think about it. I still kept my Paul Rivera designed Fender Twin Reverb. They are 135 watts.

 

I turn it on here and there, to make sure it works. Even the 50 watt Marshall combo I have is just as loud as the Twin.

 

 

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That's the thing...some people assume that a linear increase in wattage is a linear volume increase...but as we know, a 100w amp is not twice as loud as a 50w amp...it is ~3% louder, all things being equal. A 50w amp with an efficient speaker can actually be louder than a higher wattage amp.

Back in the dinosaur years, when stacks ruled the planet, we all played loud...that was rock'n'roll, baybee!

But I find my 15 and 20w amps are fine for 99% of gigs I do, and anything else, I bring the 35w Vibrolux Reverb out, more for the dispersion advantage of 2x10, not for volume's sake. I use 5 or 10W tube amps for practice...they're plenty loud...when you are sitting right next to them, cranked...bedroom volume be damned ;)

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Why do you think you need at least 100 watts?

Do you need to play that loud and project for half a mile?

Do you wear ear protection when you play? If not, you will need to...

Capable is one thing, able to get top quality tubes and electronic components, transformers, etc. is maybe a little iffier.

Plus an amp like that will not work well for your jazz learning experience.

To reiterate my previous comment, I think he means "want," not "need." ;) FWIW, I have a 65 Watt SS Fender that's deafening. It's probably equivalent to a 25 or 30 Watt tube amp. An AC30 is overkill for most of us.

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To reiterate my previous comment, I think he means "want," not "need." ;) FWIW, I have a 65 Watt SS Fender that's deafening. It's probably equivalent to a 25 or 30 Watt tube amp. An AC30 is overkill for most of us.

 

 

My wants are many, my needs, not so much. :D

 

 

The AC 15 cc isn't a bad amp either.

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No, a 100 Watt amp is not 3% louder than a 50 Watt amp. It's 3 dB louder. 10 dB normally corresponds to ''twice as loud'' so 3 dB is 2^(3/10) or about 1 1/4 times as loud (1.231 times to be more precise). The point is that a doubling of amplifier power is pretty minimal.

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Why do you think you need at least 100 watts?

Do you need to play that loud and project for half a mile?

Do you wear ear protection when you play? If not, you will need to...

Capable is one thing, able to get top quality tubes and electronic components, transformers, etc. is maybe a little iffier.

Plus an amp like that will not work well for your jazz learning experience.

because from experience. 50 watts isnt loud enough. my 60 watt jtm60 is loud enough its maxed out ( volume is about 75%). so whats the next step up in wattage? a hundred watts. i rarely see any wattage in between 50 and 100. (i guess since each power tube adds 25 watts of power and there can only an even number of power tubes) not like 100 watts u get plenty of headroom, which is what i look for in amps. a great clean sound that stays clean even at high volumes. clean sound that gets as loud as a loud drummer at least. i want to get my distortion and overdrive sounds only from the pedals, no power tube distortion. i don't use ear plugs but if i play with a full band, i'd use earplugs since i've lost enough hearing.

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i like to buy used amps and just have them checked by my tech to make sure theyre stable. then u can just have them maintained regularly or when they breakdown which is rare. i think amp technology is relatively simple since its been around since the 30's or so... my tech here can fix it and it works and sounds as good as a brand new amp. or does it not?

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because from experience. 50 watts isnt loud enough. my 60 watt jtm60 is loud enough its maxed out ( volume is about 75%). so whats the next step up in wattage? a hundred watts. i rarely see any wattage in between 50 and 100. (i guess since each power tube adds 25 watts of power and there can only an even number of power tubes) not like 100 watts u get plenty of headroom, which is what i look for in amps. a great clean sound that stays clean even at high volumes. clean sound that gets as loud as a loud drummer at least. i want to get my distortion and overdrive sounds only from the pedals, no power tube distortion. i don't use ear plugs but if i play with a full band, i'd use earplugs since i've lost enough hearing.

 

That's not how it works.

 

There many factors.

Amp class design operation, like class A, or A/B push pull. Tubes used in he power section. A 30 watt Vox AC 30 is pretty loud. The transformer makes a heap of difference and the speakers, and how many speakers and how the sound hits the user.

 

The tone is in the power section of the amp. I'm just saying.

 

 

The Fender TRRI is 85 watts and doesn't break up easily.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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]play with a better drummer who doesn't play as loud as a Marshall[/b]...problem solved...take his 1A hickory sticks away' date=' and give him some hotrods....seriously, [b']NEVER LET THE DRUMMER DICTATE THE VOLUME[/b]...

 

I can't stress this enough.

 

 

 

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I understand the OP's situation. I run a 100W SS head and a 50W tube head together all the time but I don't use the amps for gain channels.

I run them as clean power amps and get my drive from various pedals, including Marshal gain pedals which sound as good as the Marshalls gain channels. Running amps this way is quite different them pushing an amp into saturation zones.

 

It's all a matter of gain staging. I prefer to use low gain devices before high gain stages. This way there's still something left of the peaks before I run the signal through another gain flattener. If I run a high gain before low gain, the signals already flat and all that happened is boostyted noise levels by the second low gain pedal.

 

If I push an amp into saturation, (not through a high gain channel) that's a relatively low gain breakup (loud but not highly saturated) If I use a high gain pedal before the amp saturation you have it makes for extra unwanted noise, loss of clarity and controllability, especially if you use echo/reverb at the end of your pedal chain. The amps drive causes the echo to breakup which is unnatural. This is where you get all your dissonant string beating from.

 

You could put the gain pedals in the effects loop to negate that issue and then drive the amps gain up but again, it can be problematic if you are used to having the amps volume and EQ after your gain pedals. You also have more cables running back to the amp and setups can become more complex.

 

If I were playing live I'd simply run a single amp at a higher volume. To get the best Recording tones running a pair of amps at lower clean volumes makes for less noise with a close miced speaker. I do need enough kick like I'd get with a single amp cranked louder but because I'm targeting the best tone with the least unwanted distortion I have to do that at lower volumes. Using 2 amps simply lets me get the dB levels I'm used to playing at live.

 

I also have a relatively long pedal chain too and all the pedals and extra connectors does cut the signal strength down a bit, even with the pedals being true bypassed. I get those best tones from my rigs running my 100W Marshall at 50% and a 50W tube head at around 1/3. This would be fairly loud live but my studio is completely dead due to heavy soundproofing. I get no reflected tones at all in that room so unless you're ear level with the speakers the volume is much lower then you'd expect, in fact you'd think your amp was broken if you didn't know it was the room sucking the sound up like a sponge.

 

. Decibel wise I could get the same loudness running a single amp at higher volume but for me its a matter of recording tone, not volume I'm after when I run dual amps. Footprint size, crystal clear cleans and fine tuned drive levels from saturation pedals. I also run my time based effects before the amps so I have no string beating issues.

 

If I had matching heads, I'd likely run my pedals in the effects loops and I'd still have the stereo effects like chorus and echo. Because the amps are different and the vintage tube amp has no effects loop I'm better off using the pedals before both amps and using the amps EQ to get the pair sounding they're best.

 

 

A 100W Marshall tube amp probably wouldn't be my first choice for running clean using pedals. They don't sound nearly as good with the gain attenuated down to lower volumes. The bass really doesn't kick in till they are cranked up to around half power and treble/mid controls have very mild changes to the sound. They are great for tweaking pickups directly plugged in, one of the best in fact. Even the SS Marshall I have which is incredibly warm sounding can wind up sounding bland with the master volumes cranked down.

 

A 100W Fender can be much more beefy at lower volumes but even there you'd want to be sure the amp has a master volume to attenuate the power amp down and crank the preamp up higher. Fender amp EQ circuits don't work effectively until the gain is up at least 1/3 or more.

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