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Trying to find the right amp for me. Vox, Fender.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by ryanward84@gmail.com View Post
    I am looking for an amp to play in a band with a loud drummer. I'm gong for a clean, chimey, sparkley tone a bit like Johnny Marr in the Smiths, Tom Verlaine & Richard Lloyd from Television, but also with some overdriven amp tones for leads as I am not a big pedal user.

    Would an AC30 get me there or a Fender? I'm on a budget of around $500 - 700.

    There are quite a few used amps for sale locally around that price range including Vox AC30cc2, Fender Hot Rod Deville 4x10 and 2x12, Fender Super Reverb Reissue, Fender 75 1x15 combo, 80's Fender Concert head, 60's Fender Bandmaster head, Peavey Delta Blues combo.

    I can use a head with a friends 2x15 Bassman cab but a combo would be much more convenient.

    Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!


    The Vox AC30 custom classic sounds not much like the original Vox amps of the 60's. The beauty of the old Vox amps has a lot to do with the speakers, and the fact the old ones ran on the cusp of blowing up. Just kidding.

    The DeVille 4x10 is pretty damn loud, and awkward to haul. I owned a 2x12, and sold it.

    Nothing wrongs with a Super Reverb, or a Deluxe Reverb either. The DRRI is a fav of mine. You will push these amps with your fav OD. Trust me on one nice OD pedal, even with a DeVille. Even Johnny Marr has used a few pedals along the way.

    Johnny Marr was used a lot of Fender guitars, like Jaguar, but he also used a Rickenbacker 330. One of the keys to getting a great tone with a Rickenbacker is a treble booster and a touch of compression. maybe a Janglebox http://www.janglebox.com/ would be just what the doctor ordered.

    Good Luck. Hope this helps








    _____________________________________
    Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase.

    Join Date: Aug 2001
    Location: N. Adams, MA USA
    Posts as of Jan 10th 2013: 82,617

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    • #17
      I played a Super Reverb Reissue yesterday. That thing is loud and clean and the tone is beautiful. I imagine it will take pedals well, though I won't plan to use more than a little chorus, compression and overdrive.

      It was in great shape with just a tiny bit of noise from a couple of the pots. Had the 4 Jensen Alnicos made in Italy and Electro Harmonix 6L6's. The price is right and I think this is my amp barring a sudden change of mind.

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      • onelife
        onelife commented
        Editing a comment
        Super Reverbs are great amps - especially with the Jensen P10R speakers.

        My only issue with them is the size which makes them impossible (for me) to carry with a straight arm.

    • #18
      Well you won't have any trouble keeping up with your drummer if that's the direction you want to go! The only drawback for me on that amp is its weight (& bulk). Hopefully you won't have to cart it around that much.
      I have a friend who owns a quad reverb (basically a twin with 4 12's). That thing weighs probably around 100lbs & you need 2 people to load it since its so bulky...

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      • #19
        That's a lot of amp. May I recommend one of these as an accessory?

        Click image for larger version

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        http://www.harborfreight.com/2-in-1-...uck-62369.html
        Official HCAG “Theory-Challenged Hack”
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        • #20
          To follow up I got the Super Reverb Reissue and have been happy with it the last couple of months. I haven't had a lot of time to play but jammed with a drummer friend and was plenty loud at 3.5 to 4 on volume knob. I just picked up a Way Huge Red Llama MkII as an overdrive. It should arrive tomorrow and I'm excited to see how it interacts with the Super.

          And yes, it is HEAVY!
          Last edited by ryanward84@gmail.com; 02-16-2017, 03:33 PM.

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          • #21
            Congratulations and Happy New Amp Day.
            Official HCAG “Theory-Challenged Hack”
            Member of the IBANEZ ACOUSTIC ASSASSINS
            Proud Member of The Alvarez Alliance
            Member of the Schecter Society
            Person-2-Person on the Web

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            • #22
              Not everyone agrees with everything thats been said here. Point to point vs. printed circuit board. Both can be found with sh-ty workmanship. I'd take a point to point amp done right any day, for their easier to repair. There are companies that do the printed boards right. Tone King, Boogie, Zinky amps etc.
              ​Fender imo is one of the worst, using the cheapest parts and just enough transformer to get it working. (Not black faced fender amps) or early models. 60's

              Many a musician complained about Fender amps and the (ICE pick) treble. Many sent out with sh-ty tubes. Remember the amplification happens within the Tube its self. I remember the Deluxe reverb re. sounded terrible until you changed the speaker to a alltone 1250 12" speaker with a tube tweak. I've yet to find a modern tube offering that overdrives like a vintage NOS offering.1950's to 62 GE, tungsol, amperex, mullard, bendix etc. digital amps? lets not go there for professional use. solid state? there's a few. the roland jazz chorus and the Lab Series did good.

              ​If you want a quality amplifier that's going to last you. be it point to point or printed circuit board (thick double sided) unlike ( Fenders wave soldered cheap stuff )

              . its going to cost you. a couple grand or more. Been there done it all. Cry once and be done with it. Your better quality will be found with the small builders. Still tubes will be a issue. I've used JJ's and EH tubes with some success but they don't last long. NOS last ten times if not more. finding honest sellers is another topic all together.

              ​Learn how to use pedals! compressors, overdrives, boosts. then the time based effects chorus, delay, verb etc. Phasers / univibes wahs. fuzz. Above all this, learn to play. (unity gain)
              Last edited by bluesmann; 02-22-2017, 12:59 AM.
              Guitars, pedals & Amps

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              • #23
                Originally posted by ryanward84@gmail.com View Post
                I am looking for an amp to play in a band with a loud drummer. I'm gong for a clean, chimey, sparkley tone a bit like Johnny Marr in the Smiths, Tom Verlaine & Richard Lloyd from Television, but also with some overdriven amp tones for leads as I am not a big pedal user.

                Would an AC30 get me there or a Fender? I'm on a budget of around $500 - 700.

                There are quite a few used amps for sale locally around that price range including Vox AC30cc2, Fender Hot Rod Deville 4x10 and 2x12, Fender Super Reverb Reissue, Fender 75 1x15 combo, 80's Fender Concert head, 60's Fender Bandmaster head, Peavey Delta Blues combo.

                I can use a head with a friends 2x15 Bassman cab but a combo would be much more convenient.

                Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!

                Comment


                • #24
                  I've been playing 43 years, Good real Fenders were mostly out of my price range. I've had a few Solid states, a lot of Marshall AVT's which I love the Avt20 the most because I like small and powerful with good tone. The amp of all amps that ended up being my favorite after owning 50 amps over the years was the Carvin Vintage series. I have a V16 combo, a V33 which was made only 5 years from 95-2000, then changed to a 50 watt Nomad. Looks identical but is now the 1-12 version of the 2-12 BelAir. I had a BelAir up until last year but sold due to weight. It kicked butt on power and I would put it up against any Twin any day for the pricetag of 699.00. All that series has great and deep reverbs. They are made in the USA, well built and very attractive in a combination of colors and materials from tweed, blue, snakeskin, red, white, saddle brown, green you name it with various grills of oxblood, black, brown etc....personally I like the Tan brown classic tweed. The one I'm currently playing is the V16 / 5 watt head with 1-12 cab. It's light and we mic our stuff anyway. These amps are seriously underrated. Try one. They are reasonably priced and pop up on Reverb and EBay quite often. They do work great with pedals and covers and footswitch accessories are available. My bass rig and PA are also Carvin
                  Last edited by Ampfreak; 08-08-2017, 07:40 AM.

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                  • #25
                    Originally posted by ryanward84@gmail.com View Post
                    Yeah, I feel like I'm probably over thinking this. It would be much easier if I could just have all of Richard Lloyd's vintage amps! I'm leaning towards an AC30 or Super Reverb reissue. The only thing stopping me is somehow feeling like I'm missing out by not getting a hand wired amp...

                    We'll see...
                    Those would probably be the two I'd recommend looking into... and maybe the Hot Rod Deville.

                    I wouldn't worry too much about them not having P2P wiring. Unless something goes wrong and it needs to be serviced (and you plan on doing the work yourself) or you have plans to modify it, it really doesn't matter that much... and on your budget, you're probably not going to find much in the way of hand wired / point to point amps. The only ones that you mentioned that are hand wired are the 80s era Concert, the 60s Bandmaster and the Fender 75. I think the AC-30 would be a better match for what you're after tonally than any of those three amps.


                    **********

                    "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

                    - George Carlin

                    "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

                    - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                    "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

                    - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

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                    • #26
                      Originally posted by bluesmann View Post
                      Not everyone agrees with everything thats been said here. Point to point vs. printed circuit board. Both can be found with sh-ty workmanship. I'd take a point to point amp done right any day, for their easier to repair. There are companies that do the printed boards right. Tone King, Boogie, Zinky amps etc.
                      Yup.
                      **********

                      "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

                      - George Carlin

                      "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

                      - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                      "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

                      - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

                      Comment


                      • #27
                        Originally posted by WRGKMC View Post
                        I've worked on many vintage Vox's, in fact the shop I worked at had a ton or old ones stacked up in piles because they blew up so often and no one wanted to pay to have them repaired so they just abandoned them. The reissues are much better builds then the original ones using modern components.

                        As far as a Blackface, I've owned one since 1967, original owner. I've blow the screen resistors several times due to my own ignorance as a kid running the impedance too high. Compared to a Silver face which I also owned (I ran a black and silver together for about 5 years) They were identical in every way and every component except for the face plate. Those Bassman heads had great designs taken right out of the radio engineers handbook. Transformers are excellent and that's the main reason so many have survived.

                        Most of your Fender amps using 6L6 tubes are very similar. They vary with things like reverb and tremolo but the components are all about the same. You learn to work on one and you can fix most of them. There are a couple of different circuit versions of course. They basically change between the brownface blackface and CBS eras with a gradual changeover to some dogs like the red knob series in the 70/80/ and back up in quality to the present day.

                        Your bottom end SS Fenders are all Asian or Mexican made now, but they are past the early Red Knobs and have come up with some solid designs even in the cheapest amps. The tube series are the same circuits they've always used. The only difference is many of the components are improved. They have better quality caps, resistors. Transformers are built the same. If anything the pots may have plastic wipers instead of the original metal type which last forever, but that's not a huge deal. You'll still get a dozen years trouble free operation.

                        I'm not much for amps with built in effects like the Mustang series either. Computer logic built into an amplifier puts you completely out of business when they go down. If you have separate effects and they go down you can still play through the amp. If the amp goes down you still have your effects to plug into another amp. Repairs on complex amps can only be done at the factory which means the amp is scraped due to factory repair costs. A tube and even many SS amps can be repaired by most competent techs so long as there are no oddball/unique parts.

                        The bigger differences between vintage and modern is the speakers. Fender used a couple of different vendors and kept them bidding against each other. Most were based on Jensen designs but you could also buy top notch speakers like Altec and JBL which doubled the quality and price of the amps. (another sales tactic - demo an amp with the good speakers and sell them an amp with the budget speakers at the same cost) The speaker choices today are fantastic. You can take any mediocre amp and make it sound much better with a speaker swap out (just like you can improve guitars with pickup changes)

                        As far as the Super Reverb goes - Its a wonderful amp but for the price they sell I'd go for Fenders Holy Grail of 4X10 amps which is the Bassman Brownface Reissue. Much better circuit design then the Black or Silver Faced amps because the rectifier tube gives it the right sage and saturation. Its got to have the Alnico Jensens though. I've heard some with ceramic speakers and it kills its tone.

                        My buddy had one of the originals and any place he played the sound men loved that amp because it was just so versatile micing and mixing. I think They make a bandmaster version too. Probibly has reverb and or Tremolo - but that stuff eats up headroom and wattage. The Bassman was just meat and potatoes The reissues have a effect loop for adding any kind of reverb or effect you need, the originals were often modified to have it added.





                        The other 4X10 amp I loved was the Ampeg VT40 which was a killer 65W combo that simply cranked.



                        Music Man was A Leo Fender design too. Johnny Winter used them for years. I have a 65W head and while I'm not a big fan of Hybrids. You want clean headroom it will definitely get you there.



                        My first real amp was a Musicman

                        HD65-210.Combo

                        Very bright sounding.

                        I will confirm what other's have said Johnny Marr used a lot of different amps over the years. The Vox company even back in the 60's was not noted for reliability. There Custom Classics are probably more reliable, but don't sound like the old ones in IMO. I had a Vox AC15 cc at my house for a while. Remember the Celestion Alnico Blue speaker just about handle the wattage the amp delivers, but they sound great. The Celestion Gold are better if you have to replace speakers down the road.

                        I saw REM back in the very year 80's I heard Peter Buck was play Vox amps and Fender Twins. That night he did the night with a Mesa Mark amp.

                        I don't know what's out there in the used market for amp prices, but a Twin Reverb, or Super Reverb will probably get you close to Marr's tone. The Fender stuff is a bit more gig reliable.

                        If you want jangle, grab a jangle box, which is a bit of gain, compression and treble boost.

                        The Fender HRD Deluxes and DeVilles are his price range in the used market and are easy to find. The DeVille is loud at 60 watts.

                        http://www.janglebox.com/
                        _____________________________________
                        Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase.

                        Join Date: Aug 2001
                        Location: N. Adams, MA USA
                        Posts as of Jan 10th 2013: 82,617

                        Comment


                        • #28
                          FWIW, the OP bought a Super Reverb Reissue months ago and he's happy with it. He said back in mid February he'd been happy with it ''the last couple of months.''
                          Official HCAG “Theory-Challenged Hack”
                          Member of the IBANEZ ACOUSTIC ASSASSINS
                          Proud Member of The Alvarez Alliance
                          Member of the Schecter Society
                          Person-2-Person on the Web

                          Comment


                          • #29
                            Originally posted by ryanward84@gmail.com View Post
                            To follow up I got the Super Reverb Reissue and have been happy with it the last couple of months. I haven't had a lot of time to play but jammed with a drummer friend and was plenty loud at 3.5 to 4 on volume knob. I just picked up a Way Huge Red Llama MkII as an overdrive. It should arrive tomorrow and I'm excited to see how it interacts with the Super.

                            And yes, it is HEAVY!


                            Yes they are heavy and awkward to carry.
                            I never really trust the plastic handles anyway and carry my bigger amps with 2 hands close to my body.

                            They are actually a touch heavier than a Twin Reverb.

                            Twins don't really break up, the Super will. I have a Twin that been with me for over 35 years.

                            I also have a 65 Deluxe and a 65 Princeton, cause I am old now.

                            I like those blackface Fender amps.




                            _____________________________________
                            Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase.

                            Join Date: Aug 2001
                            Location: N. Adams, MA USA
                            Posts as of Jan 10th 2013: 82,617

                            Comment


                            • #30
                              Eh, you kids today have it easy... why when I was a youngin' I used to cart around a Super Six and a 1x12 Boogie. Now THAT'S a heavy rig!

                              Seriously, a Super is a bit of a pain to haul, but what a great sounding amp! Enjoy!
                              **********

                              "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

                              - George Carlin

                              "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

                              - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                              "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

                              - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

                              Comment













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