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Frustrated with My Fender Deville 2X12


SimplyTH

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Hey there,

 

So about a year ago I bought a Fender Hot Rod Deville 2X12 used, I was broke at the time and got it for a real cheap price which was good because i was desperately in need of a larger amp for gigs. The fact that is was large, tube, cheap and a Fender (I have played other nicer Fenders before and have always been really impressed). Turns out I can't stand the thing, it sounds really stiff, responds poorly to playing dynamics, and really dull, drab, and sterile. Despite the lack of high end but also don't sound very full or commanding otherwise.

So here are the options:

 

Trade it in for something else

 

Mod it

 

Compensate with other gear/techniques

 

The problem with trading it in is that I'm still pretty broke and the trade in value on this thing is not high. With trade in plus my cash I guess I would have maybe 500-550 to spare I guess. I need an amp that is of decent wattage (play in some groups that are very loud, often in venues without PAs for the guitar). Also, I don't live a small market area, so any amps you might recommend need to be pretty easy to find.

 

The downside to modding it is I don't have experience working with amps like that (but I would like to learn!), and I don't want to sink $100 on mods only find out that it didn't fix anything.

 

Basically, have a Fender Deville, sounds really dull and stiff, and without spending a lot of $ want to get a useable guitar tone.

 

 

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A quick, relatively cheap mod anyone can do is to replace the speakers. The current Hot Rod Deville has Celestions in it. You could install a pair of Eminence or Jensens for well under $300 and make a world of difference. Whether it would be what you're looking for is debatable but it might be what you need.

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I agree about the speakers.

 

Another thing you can try is putting a compressor pedal in the effects loop. The way the am is engineered, the Master Volume control is earl in the signal chain. In order to get a usable volume level from the amp, the Master is usually kept quite low.

 

The effects loop is much later in the circuit and by using a compressor to keep the output level manageable you can crank up the Drive and the Master (and also the Volume for the Normal channel) and get a much fuller and more dynamic sound.

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A buddy I played with had one and he used a tube screamer before the amp and I thought it made the amp sound very good. Brought out that tube tone very nicely. I use one with my old Blackface Fender Bassman head and it does the same thing. You can buy a Behringer Tube screamer clone for about 30$ they use the same chip as the Ibanez and run side by side there's practically no difference. The knobs are a bit cheesy but you basically set and forget those.

 

I agree with the speakers being a possible mod too. Celestions would not be my first choice in a fender. I've used them with both of my fender amps and they just aren't voiced right for that American tone. Fender amps have a lower frequency scoop in their treble and mids then say a Marshall amp. Celestions like green backs sounded muddy as all get out with my Bassman. My Altecs with aluminum cones give my fender head a killer edge with a solid bottom. Very loud too. The Eminence American series like the Legend, Patriot, Copper head, or even the Swamp Thang might be a good choice. If you go with a Jensen like speaker I'd likely choose an Alnico over the Ceramic. I run 4X10" Alnico Jensens with my tube heads and it has some great tones. They are pretty tight and bright in an open backed cab however. They aren't cheap either.

 

JBL's are killer fender speakers too (at least the older ones were)

 

In any case, I wouldn't attempt to mod the head. There's no reason too and you aren't going to get much better then the original circuit. You have no electronics experience to do it yourself and paying someone else without knowing exactly what you'd get is highly risky. Its not a cheap alternative and again when you compare how much bang for the bucks going for speakers of the proper gain box should do the trick nicely.

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Any modification or simple repair such as resoldering the Input jack requires removing the printed circuit board on those amps - a time consuming task which makes the modification process quite different than on an older Fender tube amp with point to point wiring.

 

My suggestion would be to experiment with pedals first - the Tube Screamer in front of the amp or perhaps a compressor or EQ pedal in the effects loop - then try a speaker swap. I would not attempt to modify the amp but would consider swapping it for something that sounds more like the "nicer Fenders" you have played through in the past.

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  • 3 weeks later...
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Has it ever had new tubes? The Hot Rod combos are generally decent - to - good sounding amps, so if it sounds stiff and dull, it might not be anything more than the tubes needing to be replaced. If you are unsure if the amp has ever had new tubes, take a look at what brand of tubes are in it now. I think the Hot Rods have come with Groove Tubes, though I could be wrong.

 

These amps are usually pretty good (I used a HR Deluxe in the early 2000's and when I was looking for an amp 3 years ago, it is what I landed on again.) - but I may be biased. I don't look for a lot of color, and really prefer the Fender clean sound , which these amps should definitely deliver.

 

If you are looking for an option to turn up the master without blowing your head off, there are passive volume boxes that are designed for this. they will be a cheaper option and won't add another level of complexity to your situation (compression can also be a tone-suck if it is too drastic, so it may not help)

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Weird, mine is actually too dynamic,at least the clean channel. You really have to watch how you attack the strings...take someone's head off.

 

The distortion channel is not the best, but I can dial up some good sounds by keeping the gain low. And it doesn't have the overly touchy feel.

 

Mine has Jensen's.

 

Don't get me wrong about the clean channel though, it's why I bought the amp. Amazing tone.

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I still suggest trying a bit of compression in the effects loop (Preamp Out - Power Amp In) and see how that goes. You can be subtle with it and avoid taking someone's head off and also reduce the output level of the amp so you can turn the Volume control up and get some different dynamics by driving the preamp a little harder.

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Onelife - a compressor is best suited on the source-signal (the guitar) and should be used in moderation, unless you like a lifeless and bland tone. In the loop it is going to be reacting to the dynamics post EQ, so it may squash more than you want if you have any of the EQ controls set with a 'Boost' at all. If you use a one-knobber, you'll have no idea how much squash you are getting besides what you hear - and in my opinion Compression is not an effect. It is not something you want to 'hear' - but rather should be that something that you miss when it's not there, but you aren't sure exactly why.

 

Also, I'm not sure how modern pedal buffers would affect the signal (if at all) going into the power section.

 

If you want lower volume, a passive volume control will just reduce the signal level, without killing the tone (hopefully, I've never used one). If you want the real amp sound with lower volume, you've got to shell out for an attenuator and let the tubes do their thing!

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Onelife - a compressor is best suited on the source-signal (the guitar) and should be used in moderation, unless you like a lifeless and bland tone. In the loop it is going to be reacting to the dynamics post EQ, so it may squash more than you want if you have any of the EQ controls set with a 'Boost' at all. If you use a one-knobber, you'll have no idea how much squash you are getting besides what you hear - and in my opinion Compression is not an effect. It is not something you want to 'hear' - but rather should be that something that you miss when it's not there, but you aren't sure exactly why.

 

Also, I'm not sure how modern pedal buffers would affect the signal (if at all) going into the power section.

 

If you want lower volume, a passive volume control will just reduce the signal level, without killing the tone (hopefully, I've never used one). If you want the real amp sound with lower volume, you've got to shell out for an attenuator and let the tubes do their thing!

 

As much as I agree with everything in your post, I am a recording engineer and I use compression on guitar tracks that have already been recorded. I do so in a way that does not squash the tone or make it lifeless and bland. I use compression judiciously and, as a rule of thumb, if I can hear the compression then it is indeed too much.

 

In the Hot Rod series of Fender amps, the Master Volume control is in the very early stages of the amplifier and, even when it is turned down, there is a considerable amount of gain in the amplifier before the final power stage. This introduces a lot of noise and, unless the amplifier is turned up quite loud, contributes to a very poor signal to noise ratio.

 

It is certainly feasible to use a passive volume control or an attenuator to improve the S/N ratio but, as a guitarist and someone who records a lot of guitar, I have found careful use of a compressor between the preamp and power stage of these particular amplifiers (and there are a lot of them out there) to be an effective and musical solution.

 

My preference would be to use a Blues Driver or Tube Screamer in front of a Princeton Reverb but when the amp of the day is a Hot Rod and I need to make it workable, I'll use a compressor.

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