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Herbert owners, we need your help!


AgentOrange

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After talking to flyangus on my symphony x thread, we realised that we may well be experiencing the same problem with our diezels.

 

In both cases, there doesnt seem to be any immediacy to the attack in the notes and when i play with my neck single coil on my SL-1, i cant get that fluid feel that you usually get from the neck position. Both of us seem to be running the presence and treble much higher than you would expect to get the sound that were getting. Flyangus described it as sounding like the tone control on your guitar was rolled off and i think thats pretty close to what im hearing, now that i know im not the only one with the problem. I have to run my SD-1 in the front just to get the feel that i want and the attack on the notes that im after.

 

When i turn it up it gets a litte rumbly aswell, which i didnt notice before, but due to university, there are long gaps when im not playing it, so its tough to recall what it used to sound like.

 

I thought i was just falling out of love with it, but since someone else is having a similar problem, now im thinking that it may be a fault.

 

The obvious answer is to change the tubes, but flyangus changed his fairly recently to no avail and i dont want to spend 80 quid on new tubes if it wont do anything!

 

Any ideas?

 

James

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Just to add to what James said:

I'm running the clarity (prescence) at 3.30 and treble (CH2) on about 4 o'clock with mid-cut engaged to get a decent amount of bite. I wouln't say I'm getting a low rumble, just a blanket over the speakers effect.

Oh yeah, this through a front loaded Genz Benz 2x12 with G12-75s in!

My power amp tubes were changed 7-8 months ago and have seen very light use. The preamp tubes were swapped several times with NOS and chinese tubes today and no difference.

What settings sre you guys using?

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yeah i have a feeling the rumble may be unrelated, or perhaps that the bass is farting my speakers out. It only happens when i crank it, but i used to be able to turn it up stupidly loud ... or at least ... i think i could :confused:

Its so very hard when it didnt just go wrong one day, untill now i just thought i wasnt after the same sound or something, but now im not so sure.

Im running the presence at 3oclock and the treble at 2oclock or more, though it doesnt seem to solve the problem by cranking it. I also use the midcut to get some attack back

Lets hope peter can give us some advice later

James

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Hey James, how about you let me give your Herbert the VH4 mod. It involved me driving to your house, and cunningly swapping your Herbert for my VH4. You then play the VH4 for a while and i play the Herbert. We both rock, job done, swap back later. sound like fun?

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I know what you mean about not being sure:D I think it's insidious.

I compared it to the VH4 with the controls all at 12 o'clock on both amps, and the Herbert sounded really dull, and the VH4 isn't particularly bright. Compared to the Engl SE it sounds like I'm listening to the back of the cab!! Turn the treble and clarity up to about 4 o'clock and it's much better but that seems kind of high to me.

Let's hope Def Pearl Pilot, Dale B et al chime in..........................


Angus

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Hmm, I'm not sure exactly what you guys are asking. However, I will say that when I play at less the band volumes, I do have the treble up pretty high but my presence and depth at noon. One reason that I like this amp so much is because the highs are tame and not fatiguing.

That being said, I've never had problems with the attack of the notes. The amp is very fluid and made for legato type stuff.

Also, I've never experienced a rumble in the notes. The mid-cut does sounds like it pronounces the highs and lows while seeming to add gain. I wouldn't say it sounds like a blanket to me. It sounds pretty {censored}in heavy.

It could be something in the preamp section. Have you guys checked that the preamp tubes are OK?

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Originally posted by flyangus

Oh yeah, this through a front loaded Genz Benz 2x12 with G12-75s in!


What settings sre you guys using?

 

 

Not the first pick, cabwise, I'd wip out. For Herb? Na-ah!

 

With Herb, you must go the way...

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Originally posted by flyangus

Just to add to what James said:


I'm running the clarity (prescence) at 3.30 and treble (CH2) on about 4 o'clock with mid-cut engaged to get a decent amount of bite. I wouln't say I'm getting a low rumble, just a blanket over the speakers effect.


Oh yeah, this through a front loaded Genz Benz 2x12 with G12-75s in!


My power amp tubes were changed 7-8 months ago and have seen very light use. The preamp tubes were swapped several times with NOS and chinese tubes today and no difference.


What settings sre you guys using?

 

 

Something doesn't sound right here. I'm thinking it's related to the preamp tubes. I usually keep my Presence at 1:00 and the treble at 12-1:00, and I get more than enought bite/edge to my tone on channel 2.

 

You might also want to invest in some sort of voltage regulator/power conditioner (Furman) to make sure Herbie is getting all the juice it needs, because a drop in voltage would also cause the sounds you're both hearing.

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Originally posted by Def_Pearl_Pilot

Hmm, I'm not sure exactly what you guys are asking. However, I will say that when I play at less the band volumes, I do have the treble up pretty high but my presence and depth at noon. One reason that I like this amp so much is because the highs are tame and not fatiguing.


That being said, I've never had problems with the attack of the notes. The amp is very fluid and made for legato type stuff.


Also, I've never experienced a rumble in the notes. The mid-cut does sounds like it pronounces the highs and lows while seeming to add gain. I wouldn't say it sounds like a blanket to me. It sounds pretty {censored}in heavy.



It could be something in the preamp section. Have you guys checked that the preamp tubes are OK?

 

 

Thanks andrew,

 

I've swapped the pre's but no change. What we're asking is, does anyone else notice a lack of top end or bite, and what does your setup sound like when it's got the prescence and treble up that far (both about 4 o'clock). With everything at noon at house volumes it's very dull - like the tone pot has been rolled off about half way.

 

Thanks

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Originally posted by Wizard of Ozz



Something doesn't sound right here. I'm thinking it's related to the preamp tubes. I usually keep my Presence at 1:00 and the treble at 12-1:00, and I get more than enought bite/edge to my tone on channel 2.


You might also want to invest in some sort of voltage regulator/power conditioner (Furman) to make sure Herbie is getting all the juice it needs, because a drop in voltage would also cause the sounds you're both hearing.

 

 

Thanks Wiz,

 

Those are the settings I would expect, how does yors sound with the prescence and treble around 4 o'clock?

 

The voltage in the UK is very good, we don't really need conditioning - at least that is what I'm led to believe.

 

Cheers.

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Originally posted by flyangus



Thanks Wiz,


Those are the settings I would expect, how does yors sound with the prescence and treble around 4 o'clock?

 

 

Very bright. I run mine thru a Diezel 4X12 frontloaded with V30s. What preamp tubes specifically are you using?

 

 

The voltage in the UK is very good, we don't really need conditioning - at least that is what I'm led to believe.


Cheers.

 

 

Well considering that about half the members of my Marshall Amp Forum live in the UK, their experiences with varying line voltages differ with yours. Just throwing it out there because that would cause the change in tone that you're both experiencing.

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Originally posted by Diezel



mix this with 2 v30s or 2 Eminence.

 

 

The Bogner had 4 v30's in to start with and I hated it:( . I put the G12 75's in and preferred it, then I put H30's in and loved it! I just don't like V30's. Thanks for the advice though. I took out the original GB speakers out because I thought they were a bit dark - or maybe it was the Herbert:)

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Originally posted by Wizard of Ozz



Very bright. I run mine thru a Diezel 4X12 frontloaded with V30s. What preamp tubes specifically are you using?




Well considering that about half the members of my Marshall Amp Forum live in the UK, their experiences with varying line voltages differ with yours. Just throwing it out there because that would cause the change in tone that you're both experiencing.

 

 

I've got Rubys in at the moment, I also swapped in the pres from my Engl SE, again with no significant change. I know, it sounds like dodgy preamp tubes but I've already tried that.

 

The voltage issue is interesting, I thought it was good over here! Anyway, even if that was the case the VH4 and Engl SE would be affected too don't you think?

 

How does yours sound with all controls at noon and mid cut off?

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Originally posted by flyangus



The Bogner had 4 v30's in to start with and I hated it...

 

 

That's the problem. v30s alone are too harsh and a bit too mid-strong.

 

They are great in a mix. The Bogner 4x12 mix is spectacular in this way.

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Originally posted by flyangus



I've got Rubys in at the moment, I also swapped in the pres from my Engl SE, again with no significant change. I know, it sounds like dodgy preamp tubes but I've already tried that.


The voltage issue is interesting, I thought it was good over here! Anyway, even if that was the case the VH4 and Engl SE would be affected too don't you think?


How does yours sound with all controls at noon and mid cut off?



If none of your other amps are affected, that's a different story. With all knobs staight up, and the mid-cut off, mine sounds very open, clear, and on the brighter side on channel 2 "+" mode with the presence at 1:00.

I assume you've elminated your guitar, pickups, cables, or any fx as the source of this issue as well?

Whatever the cause, I'm betting that it's something simple that was overlooked and easily fixed. It's odd that you're both experiencing the same issue. This leads me to believe it could be something external and other than the amp itself.

:confused:

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Originally posted by Diezel



That's the problem. v30s alone are too harsh and a bit too mid-strong.


They are great in a mix. The Bogner 4x12 mix is spectacular in this way.

 

 

I tried the Uberkab setup, I don't think this problem is the cabinet or speakers.

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Originally posted by flyangus



I tried the Uberkab setup, I don't think this problem is the cabinet or speakers.

 

 

That's what I'm saying. G12T-75s with v30s is a mid-strong monster.

 

v30s with 12H30 or **Eminence** are awesome. You have to specifically try this out real-time to appreciate this combo.

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