Members afxwinter Posted April 1, 2006 Members Share Posted April 1, 2006 Reality's setting in, and the steep prices are just too rich for my blood. I really had my heart set on a IIC+ as my one and only amp, but can't get together the 2-3000 US they seem to go for. I'd have to go for the head/cab, as I could manage carrying them separately vs the combo, so that pegs me at about $400 for a nice 1x12 cab and $2-2500 for the head. Way too much. I'm trying to convince myself that I might be happy with something else much cheaper. My favorite tone is still Hetfield's rhythm tones, but unless I totally missed something, it's not going to be possible to achieve that on a lower budget. The plan was to get the IIC+ and tweak it into my own sound, so I suppose I could do that with a cheaper high-gain amp. I've owned a 5150 II, but it was way too much power/headroom for me, plus it didn't sound anything like the Mark series imo which is my taste in tone. As sad as it is I've been looking at either a Line6 Spider II 1x12 or a Roland Cube. Any advice would be much appreciated. Sound clips are always welcome as well! I can't play for too long at a time as my wrists suffer from really bad tendonitis at the moment but I want the little time I have on the guitar to be that much more worth it with a great tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fxrs Posted April 1, 2006 Members Share Posted April 1, 2006 MkIII or MKIV will get you very close for a lot less, especially theIII. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Japetus Posted April 1, 2006 Members Share Posted April 1, 2006 Buy a Mark III, save the cash, and have just as good of tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SFW Posted April 1, 2006 Members Share Posted April 1, 2006 I can get the Master of Puppets tone out of my Mark IV. If you pick up a IV, read the manual. There is a section in there where they tell you how to get the IIC tone. It's not 100%, but 99% for sure. Close enough to smile at the extra $1500 in you bank account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members afxwinter Posted April 1, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 1, 2006 I'm definitely interested... Which stripe if it's a mark III and has anyone A/B'd it with the IV? I wouldn't mind hearing the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SFW Posted April 1, 2006 Members Share Posted April 1, 2006 If you want to sound just like John Sykes from the Whitesnake album, then the Mark III Red Stripe will get you there. To me, the Mark IV has more of the smoothness of the Mark IIC+. IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danyeo Posted April 1, 2006 Members Share Posted April 1, 2006 Get a MarkIII blue or red stripe. I don't think simul-class is a must as the non-simulclass models sound killer. I spent time comparing my IIC+ to a loaded Blue stripe MarkIII and yes, there is a difference. But they can be tweaked to sound very close. If anything, the MarkIII had slightly more gain, it sounded a little more scooped and had a little more high end. If you're looking at nailing the early Metallica sound you won't get any closer than with a MarkIII. I see those MarkIII's going for $600-$700. Mctallica is selling a IIC+ for $2150. I bought my IIC+ 5 years ago for $1400, right before the prices skyrocketed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JiroJan Posted April 1, 2006 Members Share Posted April 1, 2006 mesa should really consider making a re-issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members afxwinter Posted April 1, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 1, 2006 Most of the Mark III clips I heard sound a little brittle. Could just be the cabs used. If anyone knows where I can hear some nice examples I wouldn't mind checking it out. Damn right M/B should make a IIC+ reissue! Would that affect the resale value of the used ones if it sounded just as good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hulston Prickle Posted April 1, 2006 Members Share Posted April 1, 2006 Mark III, definately. Someone on this board posted a sweet clip of himself playing "Battery" on a Mark III and I nearly cried that I lost 2 ebay auctions for Mark IIIs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeathMonkey Posted April 1, 2006 Members Share Posted April 1, 2006 +1 on the Mark IIIs, they are a lot more versatile than they would seem. That said, I have heard some killer tones from the Mark IVs, so if a particular bargain crossed your path, I woudn't turn it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members afxwinter Posted April 2, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 2, 2006 Which Mark III would be ideal for playing at low volumes? Or does it really matter? Most people seem to not like the simul-class versions, but I figured those would be better at lower volumes wouldn't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Realm Posted April 2, 2006 Members Share Posted April 2, 2006 Originally posted by afxwinter The plan was to get the IIC+ and tweak it into my own sound, so I suppose I could do that with a cheaper high-gain amp. I've owned a 5150 II, but it was way too much power/headroom for me, plus it didn't sound anything like the Mark series imo which is my taste in tone. As sad as it is I've been looking at either a Line6 Spider II 1x12 or a Roland Cube. Any advice would be much appreciated. My advice is to stay firmly in reality which is: If you were concerened about power/headroom then don't bother looking at a Mark II or III.They are just as loud and because of the series gain design manipulating the controls to adjust sound makes it a bit more difficult than a 5150. The modelling or Hybrid route sounds more up your alley or even a preamp low power power amp.A Tri-Axis with any power amp will allow the tones you like more flexibilty and volume control.If you want cranked tones than you should go witha Mesa 20/20 or Marshall 20/20 poweramp. The Randall MTS series is also worth checking out. Good luck let us know how things go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hulston Prickle Posted April 2, 2006 Members Share Posted April 2, 2006 Originally posted by afxwinter Most of the Mark III clips I heard sound a little brittle. Could just be the cabs used. Keep in mind James used Marshall cabs with Celestion V30s, not the EVs in the combos or Mesa cabs, which are less colored than Celestions. I'll bet a Mark III through a Marshall cab would get you closer to the James tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Realm Posted April 2, 2006 Members Share Posted April 2, 2006 Originally posted by afxwinter Which Mark III would be ideal for playing at low volumes? Or does it really matter? Most people seem to not like the simul-class versions, but I figured those would be better at lower volumes wouldn't they? No you are really have to do a lil homework with Mark I II III amps.Simu-class runs a pair of tubes in class A and a pair class A/B "simul-taneously".It does nothing to reduce volume in any significant fashion nor was it designed too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members anomaly Posted April 2, 2006 Members Share Posted April 2, 2006 Didn't Hetfield combine Marshall's with his IIC+ anyways? He also used Furman PQ-3 Parametric EQ's. So it's not like you'd nail his tone with the amp alone anyways. But yeah, a MK III or MK IV would be a good bet, you'd get close enough to that Master Of Puppets tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gunslinger Posted April 2, 2006 Members Share Posted April 2, 2006 Originally posted by anomaly Didn't Hetfield combine Marshall's with his IIC+ anyways? He also used Furman PQ-3 Parametric EQ's. So it's not like you'd nail his tone with the amp alone anyways. But yeah, a MK III or MK IV would be a good bet, you'd get close enough to that Master Of Puppets tone. It was an Aphex 4 band parametric EQ, and the IIC+ preamp into the Power of a Marshall JCM800..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members afxwinter Posted April 2, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 2, 2006 I'll admit I do need to learn more about the Simul-class vs regular Marks. As for the playing volume, the consensus is that the Marks all sound really good at conversation volume, as I can attest with the one's I've played. I would however like to know about the wattage options and how they'd affect the sound in general. I've seen some that are 60/100(i'm guessing any non-simul has this option) and some that are 15/75(which is the simul version) I wouldn't mind hearing how they sound in the 15-watt mode. Someone said it isn't any less loud, just different sounding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Realm Posted April 2, 2006 Members Share Posted April 2, 2006 Originally posted by afxwinter As for the playing volume, the consensus is that the Marks all sound really good at conversation volume ROFL that would be a first...........dont get me wrong but..... In my 20+ years of playing all the mark II/III's I've played when set for "crushing" can't have the lead master over "1" for reahearsal volume and after 3 you have killed everyone in the room.Sure the amp can be dialed for "conversation" level volume but the tone is far from crushing as opposed to when its dialed for "ahnilation".Thats also the consensus I've got from bandmates other players.Hell I even read a interview with Tony Iommi 10 years ago that said the same thing when he tried Mesa Boogies. I thought it was pretty much universaly understood. I mean you do understand that unlike Peaveys or any TRUE channel switching amp that Mark's aren't simply a matter of dialing one preamp knob then dialing the one master volume knob right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grind Cruncher Posted April 2, 2006 Members Share Posted April 2, 2006 Originally posted by gunslinger It was an Aphex 4 band parametric EQ, and the IIC+ preamp into the Power of a Marshall JCM800..... I've always thought it was strange that he slaved the Mark Pre-amp into the Marshall Power-amp. I wonder what he didn't like about the Mark power-amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members afxwinter Posted April 2, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 2, 2006 Sure I noticed that on the Mark each control affects the other, but I also noticed that to my ears the preamp gain on the lead channel was enough that I didn't have to dial the master above 1. That wasn't too loud at all. The reason I didn't like my old 5150 wasn't because I found that dialing in tone was difficult, It was just that to my ears it didn't sound great at lower volumes, plus the tone was just not what I was looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Realm Posted April 2, 2006 Members Share Posted April 2, 2006 Originally posted by afxwinter Sure I noticed that on the Mark each control affects the other, but I also noticed that to my ears the preamp gain on the lead channel was enough that I didn't have to dial the master above 1. That wasn't too loud at all. The reason I didn't like my old 5150 wasn't because I found that dialing in tone was difficult, It was just that to my ears it didn't sound great at lower volumes, plus the tone was just not what I was looking for. Yah like alot of amps the 5150 just "wants to have fun" very loud fun.For the record the 5150 has never done it for me either and I only like the Mesa DR just a smidgeon better and thats not saying much. Sure dial the Mark volume to .5 for "conversation level" but bump any further and thats gone. Theres no flexibility.But hey if you live with it theres nothing like a Mark II/III amp tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members afxwinter Posted April 10, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 10, 2006 Needed some help. I have an opportunity to buy a Red-stripe Mark III fully-loaded and with Simul-class. It's the short-head and has been well-maintained and has new tubes (2 6l6's and 2 el34's). Just wondering if I should be able to get close enough to the IIC+ tone. Will I have to put in 4 6l6's to nail it or is that not necessary. Any info on the difference in tone from the 15w vs the 75w modes would be helpful as well. As for a cab, I was thinking about getting a closed-back 1x12 recto cab, but it's only 60 watts. Will that be a major issue when running the head in 75 watt mode? The guy wants $825 US for it which seems alright since I don't have to pay for shipping. That seem about right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members afxwinter Posted April 10, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 10, 2006 Anyone able to help me with the issues mentioned above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Code-001 Posted April 10, 2006 Members Share Posted April 10, 2006 Originally posted by afxwinter Needed some help. I have an opportunity to buy a Red-stripe Mark III fully-loaded and with Simul-class. It's the short-head and has been well-maintained and has new tubes (2 6l6's and 2 el34's). Just wondering if I should be able to get close enough to the IIC+ tone. Will I have to put in 4 6l6's to nail it or is that not necessary. Any info on the difference in tone from the 15w vs the 75w modes would be helpful as well. As for a cab, I was thinking about getting a closed-back 1x12 recto cab, but it's only 60 watts. Will that be a major issue when running the head in 75 watt mode? The guy wants $825 US for it which seems alright since I don't have to pay for shipping. That seem about right? You'll be fine with the 2 EL34/2 6L6 combo but the general consensus is that 4 6L6s sound better. You'll have to hear the difference between the 15 vs 75 for yourself; there is a difference (I run mine at full Simul-Class power all the time). The price is too high and look for an Older Mesa/Boogie Thiele Cab on ebay or something with an EV speaker in it. Those things crush small animals about a mile away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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