Can you hear the difference in amps in a loud bar or club?

[noise5150]

Over the years my observation is that in your basement or home, especially at lower to mid level volumes, every amp has its own character and tone and so do cabs. My brother and I have a variety of amps and cabs in our basement where we also have a little recording set up and you can tell when the Marshall is being played vs Fender vs Mesa etc. But when I go to bars and clubs I find it harder to tell the difference. There is a local band in my area and the guitar player plays through an older Line6 Flextone and some beat up cab (I think it may be a Peavey?) and it sounds great in fact, its one of the best guitar tones Ive heard on a bar. What do you guys think - does raw volume in a bar (I dont mean super loud just normal bar amp volume), club or even arena take away from the unique "tone" of an amp?

[RSBro]

If it's to the "loud" point to where I can't discern what sounds good or not and what's going on, then I usually leave... FWIW.

[GCDEF]

I can definitely hear a difference when I play different amps in clubs. It's really noticeable to me.

[Jesse G]

It's less noticeable for sure. The crowd sure as hell doesn't know the difference though.

[Carcinogen]

I don't notice brands, I notice sound quality. I hate hearing {censored} guitar tone, regardless of the amp brand. If it sounds like an icepick in my ear, I leave. When I hear something that impresses me, I go up and make a mental inventory of their gear and try and figure out how to reproduce it, but usually forget all about it and just go back to sounding the way I always sound.

[teemuk]

To tell the truth, I care more about hearing the singer clearly and bass not being mud that makes the entire building buzz uncontrollably. Raw volume is usually a great way to ensure your performance will end up being only ear-pearcing {censored}. With most clubs/gear the problem definitely isn't how much volume you can muster but if you can actually tweak the band mix to sound great and balanced.

Oh, loudness doesn't rob tone, but it alters it because human hearing responds differently to frequencies depending on volume. Hearing the same signal louder or quieter makes a difference. Additionally, when volumes get cranked, a great chance is that more and more distortion is introduced in the amplification process to mush up the signal. It's not always a good thing. Room resonances and effects of standing waves also begin to have more importance at higher sound pressures and that can mess things up badly.

[noise5150]

Interesting points - Im a tone junky too and have been through tons of gear and effects over the years to find a sound that I like but like I said Ive seen all sorts of gear ranging from Mesa Half stacks to Line6 combos and when they are loud or going through a PA I find it harder to tell the difference compared to the controlled space in my house. THAT'S ANOTHER THING - good point about the "ice pick in my ear" thing thats one thing I hate when Im in a bar/club or arena and the presence or the treble are turned up way too much and all you get is that ear piercing shrilly sound!

[Ryan Turner]

I think regular club patrons can hear a difference in what gear you use, they just don't know what difference they are hearing. Something about the band will pop out more about the sound when a band knows how to use their equipment. I mean, someone who EQ's their guitar rig to sound like hollow mush to where you can't hear them in the mix versus a guitar playing that cuts through the mix with an awesome sound, the crowd will probably think the latter is the better player, even if they were the same skill level. The crowd won't think it's their tone, they will just hear him better and equate that to being better.

Whats funny, though, is I don't hear a difference between cheap and expensive gear, I hear a difference between a player who knows how to work their gear and one who doesn't. I've heard guitarist that make cheap Marshall MG stacks and Line 6 Spiders sound godly and I've heard guitarists make Bogners and Mesas sound like absolute {censored}. A tool is only as good as the operator using it. Like I said, a crowd will notice a difference in tone, but won't know that's what the difference is.

[Cougar Hunter]

well, yes and no.

 

bad gear normally sounds bad at all volumes

 

 

Some good gear sounds good at all volumes.

 

some good gear sucks until it's at high volume.

 

 

It depends, I guess.

[Slaymoar]

I found that all I need is the volume knob on my guitar... Set the amp to some dirt, and use the volume + pick dynamics for cleans vs dirt. Then a boost for leads. This simple setup sounds {censored}ing awesome, and I'm happy with it.

 

As for different amps at loud gigs, every amp I've owned I could tell the difference, the only time I can't, is when I get drowned out, but thats a soundman issue.

[The Anomaly]

I think the question needs to be clarified as it pertains to:

 

Listening on stage or the crowd hearing it at FoH.

 

I would think most guitar players listening to their own rigs can totally hear small differences still, at bar level, but when I listen to a band at FoH, with all the other instruments in the mix, I usually can't tell what brand of gear someone is playing until I look at it.

[Mizati20]

I would have to say at those louder levels you do lose some certain characteristics, but IMO I start to hear/notice how well the amp in question handles louder volumes, which can vary drastically...

[HKSblade1]

Most bar type venues you can't expect a "great sound" just because of the way things are set up (unless the club has a nice house system). I don't expect every bar band do be top notch either. Note for note solo's not happening don't bother me. I've heard bad sound from the best bands around. Bad night for them maybe, we all have that from time to time.

The regular audience is there to have a good time and won't criticize as much as the two guitar players (from other bands) in the back room with their arms folded.

[sled]

It depends.

[flump]

I end up hearing more cover bands than original bands just because of the bars I hang out at while having fun with my friends, but often times the guitarists tone sounds like complete {censored} when its just a Les Paul or American Strat through any number of GOOD amps. Most of it is heard through the PA and we all know the QC that goes on in that regard.

I certainly notice as a member of the crowd, but 99% of the crowd does not. It also depends on if you're playing in a club full of musicians and their friends or at a bar in front of a bunch of drunk people who are there to hear their favorite radio tunes.

[Johnny Z]

The average drunk don't know and don't care. The guys on stage may know since they are used to a certin sound from their amp, but different bars sound different and the crowd sucks up most the tone. I used a Fender Twin Reverb for about 30 years doing bar gigs and I bet I could have used a loud SS amp and nobody would have known the difference, but me. Still the Twin really did it best.

[misterzachariah]

I'm pretty sure I can tell whether it's brighter or darker, more open or more throaty, etc. I sure as hell couldn't blind pick what brand (and especially model) it was, though. Maybe some people could, but I'm highly inclined to doubt it.

[timmyfirst]

i think as a player you feel the difference in brands live. If i'm out watching other bands then i try not to listen as a guitarist. Live sound is a great leveller, {censored}ty mics, crappy PA systems, dodgy soundmen etc. Its one of the reasons i stopped playing Cornford, the places that we play you really wouldnt be able to tell the difference between a Marshall and a Cornford, so i sold the Cornford and pocketted the difference!.

[Das Booty]

Too many variables. If we're talking about being a spectator, mic placement, quality of mic, quality of mix through the sound system or quality of sound system can be individually or additively detrimental to sound.

If we are talking about listening to an amp on stage while your band is playing..yes its possible to hear the difference until your ears become noise drunk to the point where you lose the whole guitar in the mix. If you are fortunate enough to be wearing earplugs, I would doubt you really could tell any significant differences in amps.

[Kelly]

usually, ya.

[BC Audio]

Yes, absolutely! How your tone fits in with the band is crucial to the overall band sound and your connection with the crowd. And yes, most people can tell the difference. If they're not gear head guitar players, they might not know exaclty what's different or why one guy sounds better than another. But they can hear the difference!

How an amp behaves in the context of a live band situation is fundamentally important to me as a builder. I spent many a night playing in bars and at full volume rehearsals tweaking, massaging and finessing my amps before turning them into a commercial product.

['63-Strat]

As said, I think in a bar the exp'd player is going to sound better regardless of gear unless we're comparing the same player with different rigs, IMO. Knowing how to dial your tone for the mix, having the right touch and knowing how loud you can play before its going to screw up the vocals and FOH mix is usually going to count far more than what gear you're playing within reason. I've seen guys playing SS marshalls sound great b/c of this and I've seen guys with full boutique/tube/midi switching/etc. rigs sound like ass b/c of this too. I just think there are too many variables to say that rig "x" doesn't sound noticeably better than the generic rig "y" in a club b/c of the volume. More likely its user error, just my .02.

[squinty]

As with many of the previous posts there are too many variables... however if you were in a small bar, not miking cabs and playing at low to mid volumes (balanced with the drummers acoustic kit volume) then there is a definite difference in Amp tone...

Normally I use 2 different amps live (A-B set up)
Bad Cat Cub 2r and Marshall 1974X OR
Bad Cat Cub 2r and Matchless dc30 head (set at half power) with 2 x 10 Gold Alnico cab

The Cub is my clean
The Marshall or Matchless is set for grit.

There is a massive difference in tone characteristics.
Many peers and patrons often comment on the tone at this volume.
Lots of punters check out the rig.
(pity about the playing!!!)

At higher volumes I would Mike up... Then you are at the mercy of:-
1.The room
2.The mic and placement
3.The PA
4.The engineer
5.The bar manager
6.The vocalist in your band
7. His girlfriend etc...........

[Carcinogen]

I've used 3 amps over the years and I've never had any kind of problem. I used to run a Carvin X100B or a Marshall JMP II, but I had lots of problems because those amps had to be turned up far too loud in order to get the best tones out of them. I still own the amps, but both of them need tube changing that I haven't been able to afford. So, I've been running a Fender Stage 100 through a Crate BV412 (with V30's) and I've gotten complimented on the tone by a number of people who sound damn good themselves. So, yeah, the trick is knowing your equipment.