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  • OT: Please give me some feedback on my drums sound (DFHS1 versus DFH)

    Hi,

    Here are two clips of the same riffs but with different drums.
    One clip I had already posted some weeks ago, and I used EZDrummer DFH drums on it:

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=945046&songID=9408664

    Today I tried using DFHS (Superior 1), because for me it's less confusing processing the drums in my DAW than in Superior 2.0, which I also have.
    So, this clip was done with Superior 1:

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=945046&songID=9676395

    I'm still a noob with regard to mixing in general and processing drums, so I'd appreciate any kind of feedback, as in which version has a better drum sound, and what do I need to work on most to improve the drumsound of Superior 1 clip.

    Thanks,
    Lars
    <div class="signaturecontainer"><font color="royalblue"><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.larsbauer.com/">my website - free licks - some of my music</a></font></font></font></div><br><br><div class="signaturecontainer"><font color="royalblue"><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.larsbauer.bandcamp.com/">my new EP 'Sonic Sketches' is out now (instrumental progressive Metal)</a></font></font></font></div>

  • #2
    Why do you find Superior 1 less confusing? If you don't want to use the FX in S2.0 coz you're more familiar just doing things in your DAW, you can simply route the S2.0 mic channels to their own output busses, and then you're pretty much working the same way as you would with the original Superior.

    Only problem I really have with your Superior drum sound is that it's very dry. No real depth or room sound in there, it just sounds like close mics only.
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    <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Norton666 (15/07/2009)</strong>

    </div>
    <div class="message">Give it 6 months and the Axe-Fx will be mentioned in the same sentence as the Johnson Millenium stuff.</div>

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    • #3
      Why do you find Superior 1 less confusing? If you don't want to use the FX in S2.0 coz you're more familiar just doing things in your DAW, you can simply route the S2.0 mic channels to their own output busses, and then you're pretty much working the same way as you would with the original Superior.

      Only problem I really have with your Superior drum sound is that it's very dry. No real depth or room sound in there, it just sounds like close mics only.


      Thanks, man, as always I very much appreciate your feedback!

      For me all the different microphone and bleed options in S2.0 are too much, and I can't seem to handel it.
      With Superior 1 it's simpler, I just bounce the tracks and then process them.

      What do you tihnk of the drum EQing I did on this Superior 1 track?
      I had to turn down the ambience mic a lot because the hi-hat was way too loud in there. Maybe I can fix this by adding some reverb?
      <div class="signaturecontainer"><font color="royalblue"><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.larsbauer.com/">my website - free licks - some of my music</a></font></font></font></div><br><br><div class="signaturecontainer"><font color="royalblue"><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.larsbauer.bandcamp.com/">my new EP 'Sonic Sketches' is out now (instrumental progressive Metal)</a></font></font></font></div>

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks, man, as always I very much appreciate your feedback!

        For me all the different microphone and bleed options in S2.0 are too much, and I can't seem to handel it.
        With Superior 1 it's simpler, I just bounce the tracks and then process them.

        What do you tihnk of the drum EQing I did on this Superior 1 track?
        I had to turn down the ambience mic a lot because the hi-hat was way too loud in there. Maybe I can fix this by adding some reverb?


        If you used S2.0, you'd be able to control the level of hi-hat bleed in each mic, rather than just the on/off you have in Superior 1.

        Really, it's not that much different, or at least, it doesn't have to be. There are a couple of extra mics, in the kick and snare, and then a few more AMB mic options. In terms of bleeds, you can use it like the simple on/off style of Superior, or you can go further and adjust the levels on individual things. If you want to get into all the more complex routing and whatnot you can, but it's not a necessity.

        EQ-wise I didn't mind the sound at all. I'm not too big into the typical heavily processed modern metal drum sound, so apart from the lack of any room sound, I like the sound. Only thing is that it sounds like your HH is just dead centre, whereas it should generally be panned over to the left a bit. Wasn't enough tom work in there for me to really catch it, but if you haven't, you'd generally have those panned across maybe as far as L80 to R80, depending on how your kit is set up. Obviously if you've only got one rack tom and a floor tom, you're probably not gonna want them panned like that coz it'd sound effing 'tarded.
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        <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Norton666 (15/07/2009)</strong>

        </div>
        <div class="message">Give it 6 months and the Axe-Fx will be mentioned in the same sentence as the Johnson Millenium stuff.</div>

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        • #5
          The second clips drums sound a bit too dry. It seems to be mostly the snare that is kinda out of place. The riffing is sick though.
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          <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Y0UNGBL00D</strong>
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          • #6
            The second clips drums sound a bit too dry. It seems to be mostly the snare that is kinda out of place. The riffing is sick though.


            Thanks, man !
            Yes, I'm not sure if I like the sanre the way it sounds yet. I played around with the EQing a lot, but I did not find a sound I really liked. I will keep working on this.
            <div class="signaturecontainer"><font color="royalblue"><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.larsbauer.com/">my website - free licks - some of my music</a></font></font></font></div><br><br><div class="signaturecontainer"><font color="royalblue"><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.larsbauer.bandcamp.com/">my new EP 'Sonic Sketches' is out now (instrumental progressive Metal)</a></font></font></font></div>

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            • #7
              The guitar is too low in the second one, but yeah the drums sound much better. I have the DKFH plugin for EZDrummer and I never use it because I could never get a very good sound out of it. It sounds thinner than even the stock EZDrummer sounds.
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              • #8
                The guitar is too low in the second one, but yeah the drums sound much better. I have the DKFH plugin for EZDrummer and I never use it because I could never get a very good sound out of it. It sounds thinner than even the stock EZDrummer sounds.


                Thanks !
                I actually took off two guitars in the 2nd track as opposed to 4 guitars that are in the 1st track. Due to my sloppy playing thwe 4 guitar tracks sunded muddy. I should have turned the 2 guitars that were left up a bit more, then.
                Eventually I do want to use 4 guitar tracks, though, but I need to get my playing much tighter for that.
                <div class="signaturecontainer"><font color="royalblue"><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.larsbauer.com/">my website - free licks - some of my music</a></font></font></font></div><br><br><div class="signaturecontainer"><font color="royalblue"><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.larsbauer.bandcamp.com/">my new EP 'Sonic Sketches' is out now (instrumental progressive Metal)</a></font></font></font></div>

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                • #9
                  I only listened to the Superior 1 clip, but sounds pretty good.

                  The low end needs some cleaning, sounds like the kick and bass guitar are fighting for space with each other. Try hipassing the kick higher than the bass gtr (or vice versa, which ever you'll prefer. The other @ 60Hz and the other @ 100Hz for example). Also put some heavy compression on the bass guitar track if you haven't already.

                  Have you hipassed the snare and cymbals yet? I usually high pass the snare around 300 Hz and the cymbals at 2kHz. As a general rule, the less there are unnecessary frequencies the more separation and clarity you get. Finding balance between clarity and sounding thin is what you'll need to figure out yourself.
                  <div class="signaturecontainer"><font size="1">| <font size="2"><b><a href="http://www.destinationdestruction.com" target="_blank">Destination : Destruction</a></b></font> | <a href="http://www.kalmanvaki.net/" target="_blank">Kalmanväki</a> | <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBrDqXT5lCA" target="_blank">Luujauho</a> | <a href="http://soundcloud.com/nakedzen" target="_blank">Clips</a> | <a href="http://www.youtube.com/nakedzen" target="_blank">Youtube</a> | <a href="http://i.imgur.com/ZVyir.jpg" target="_blank">Gear</a> |</font></div>

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                  • #10
                    I only listened to the Superior 1 clip, but sounds pretty good.

                    The low end needs some cleaning, sounds like the kick and bass guitar are fighting for space with each other. Try hipassing the kick higher than the bass gtr (or vice versa, which ever you'll prefer. The other @ 60Hz and the other @ 100Hz for example). Also put some heavy compression on the bass guitar track if you haven't already.

                    Have you hipassed the snare and cymbals yet? I usually high pass the snare around 300 Hz and the cymbals at 2kHz. As a general rule, the less there are unnecessary frequencies the more separation and clarity you get. Finding balance between clarity and sounding thin is what you'll need to figure out yourself.


                    Thank you !

                    I haven't applied any compression to the bass at all yet, I will try that.
                    I did high-pass the sanre and cymbals, but at like 18kHZ or something.
                    <div class="signaturecontainer"><font color="royalblue"><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.larsbauer.com/">my website - free licks - some of my music</a></font></font></font></div><br><br><div class="signaturecontainer"><font color="royalblue"><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.larsbauer.bandcamp.com/">my new EP 'Sonic Sketches' is out now (instrumental progressive Metal)</a></font></font></font></div>

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                    • #11
                      Thank you !

                      I haven't applied any compression to the bass at all yet, I will try that.
                      I did high-pass the sanre and cymbals, but at like 18kHZ or something.


                      You mean a low pass? High pass = every freq higher than the high pass freq passes through ie. it reduces lower frequencies.
                      <div class="signaturecontainer"><font size="1">| <font size="2"><b><a href="http://www.destinationdestruction.com" target="_blank">Destination : Destruction</a></b></font> | <a href="http://www.kalmanvaki.net/" target="_blank">Kalmanväki</a> | <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBrDqXT5lCA" target="_blank">Luujauho</a> | <a href="http://soundcloud.com/nakedzen" target="_blank">Clips</a> | <a href="http://www.youtube.com/nakedzen" target="_blank">Youtube</a> | <a href="http://i.imgur.com/ZVyir.jpg" target="_blank">Gear</a> |</font></div>

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                      • #12
                        You mean a low pass? High pass = every freq higher than the high pass freq passes through ie. it reduces lower frequencies.


                        Yes, you are right, I keep confusing the two, but actually the name already makes very clear which is which.
                        I think I used a high pass at 80Hz.
                        <div class="signaturecontainer"><font color="royalblue"><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.larsbauer.com/">my website - free licks - some of my music</a></font></font></font></div><br><br><div class="signaturecontainer"><font color="royalblue"><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.larsbauer.bandcamp.com/">my new EP 'Sonic Sketches' is out now (instrumental progressive Metal)</a></font></font></font></div>

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                        • #13
                          Have you hipassed the snare and cymbals yet? I usually high pass the snare around 300 Hz and the cymbals at 2kHz. As a general rule, the less there are unnecessary frequencies the more separation and clarity you get. Finding balance between clarity and sounding thin is what you'll need to figure out yourself.


                          I agree with the high-pass on the OHs, although possibly not quite as drastic as 2k. Might be wrong though, I'm just going off the top of my head. I like the OHs to still contain a decent amount of snare, and going too high with the high-pass means the snare that's left in there is just basically a little bit of high end crack. While separation is nice, the OHs help to tie the whole kit together.

                          The snare I wouldn't high-pass though, or at least, certainly not as high as 300Hz. But I guess it also depends on what kind of sound you're going for in the snare. There was a bit of lower end muddiness in his snare sound, but I'd probably tackle that with some slight peak EQing rather than a high-pass.

                          I also peak EQ the crap out of the AMB mics, possibly with some high-passing in there. That said, I also don't have kick drums in the AMB mics (unless maybe I'm going for a big dirty drum sound for something), so a lot of the low freqs normally in those mics just aren't really there to begin with.
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                          <div class="bbcode_postedby">
                          <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Norton666 (15/07/2009)</strong>

                          </div>
                          <div class="message">Give it 6 months and the Axe-Fx will be mentioned in the same sentence as the Johnson Millenium stuff.</div>

                          </div>
                          </div>
                          </div> </div>

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                          • #14
                            I agree with the high-pass on the OHs, although possibly not quite as drastic as 2k. Might be wrong though, I'm just going off the top of my head. I like the OHs to still contain a decent amount of snare, and going too high with the high-pass means the snare that's left in there is just basically a little bit of high end crack. While separation is nice, the OHs help to tie the whole kit together.

                            The snare I wouldn't high-pass though, or at least, certainly not as high as 300Hz. But I guess it also depends on what kind of sound you're going for in the snare. There was a bit of lower end muddiness in his snare sound, but I'd probably tackle that with some slight peak EQing rather than a high-pass.

                            I also peak EQ the crap out of the AMB mics, possibly with some high-passing in there. That said, I also don't have kick drums in the AMB mics (unless maybe I'm going for a big dirty drum sound for something), so a lot of the low freqs normally in those mics just aren't really there to begin with.


                            Thanks !

                            Does peak EQ mean the same as parametric EQ with a high Q setting?
                            <div class="signaturecontainer"><font color="royalblue"><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.larsbauer.com/">my website - free licks - some of my music</a></font></font></font></div><br><br><div class="signaturecontainer"><font color="royalblue"><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.larsbauer.bandcamp.com/">my new EP 'Sonic Sketches' is out now (instrumental progressive Metal)</a></font></font></font></div>

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                            • #15
                              Thanks !

                              Does peak EQ mean the same as parametric EQ with a high Q setting?



                              As in a boost or cut with a non high/low-pass/shelf on a typical parametric EQ, or like what a graphic EQ does. So the bell or peak shaped boost/cut, depending on how the bandwidth (Q) is set. Peak doesn't necessarily mean it has to be a very narrow boost/cut.
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                              <div class="bbcode_postedby">
                              <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Norton666 (15/07/2009)</strong>

                              </div>
                              <div class="message">Give it 6 months and the Axe-Fx will be mentioned in the same sentence as the Johnson Millenium stuff.</div>

                              </div>
                              </div>
                              </div> </div>

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