Members TheRymanChu Posted January 21, 2011 Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 This means they can default on bonds and pensions. $200 Billion a year on two wars and $11 Billion a year on the F-35, and we can't come up with the money to pay the pensions of those who worked 25 years to earn them. It's a sad day. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/21/business/economy/21bankruptcy.html?partner=rss&emc=rss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lostmenoggin Posted January 21, 2011 Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 This means they can default on bonds and pensions.The whole article made me throw up in mouth a little bit. I really hate what this world is turning into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NixerX Posted January 21, 2011 Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 If your only as good as the sum of your parts this should be an indicator as to how great of a job these career morons have been doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheRymanChu Posted January 21, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 Wouldn't be interesting if every American with a pension on the line shut the economy down, just to show Washington who is really their boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shenaniganizer Posted January 21, 2011 Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 Wouldn't be interesting if every American with a pension on the line shut the economy down, just to show Washington who is really their boss. They wouldn't have the balls, I'd imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheRymanChu Posted January 21, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 They wouldn't have the balls, I'd imagine. Congress would definitely have to cut back their order of F-35s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Metalman X Posted January 21, 2011 Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 They wouldn't have the balls, I'd imagine. This....in this economy it's too risky. not only would the loss in pay be harmful since many of us are still living paycheck to paycheck, but also, there's many people looking for jobs that would jump right into their place soon as the employer puts the word out....and probably for less money too. I know over the last year my employer flat out tells us this every time they nickel and dime us out of something. We're basically told flat out "Don't like it? Fine, we can get someone else who wants to keep there job to do it within 24 hours." No....really.... I imagine this is going on allover the country right now, and is just a symptom of a much larger problem(s). It shouldn't have to be this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ***1776*** Posted January 21, 2011 Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 Its not going to happenI DO THINK its time to put EVERYTHING on the table to cut and that means Defense, Social Security (raising the age, etc) EVERYTHING - EVERYTHING!! I would start with at least a 5-10% budget cut across the board, this is how it works in the real world and should be in the goverment! If u make 50K or 100K a year and you had a choice between making 45K-90K or losing your job i think you will find a way to make it on 45K!! This is not {censored}ing rocket science And the {censored}ing assholes who say "dont touch defense-military" ==== {censored} OFF! EVERYTHING IS ON THE TABLE, close some overseas military bases, get rid of a pet project or 2, and send some {censored}ing troops home! EVERYTHING ON THE {censored}ING TABLE, TIME FOR SOME ADULTS IN THE ROOM! That said the pension costs coming up for this country are STAGGERING and UNSUSTAINABLE. From a local level, to a county level, to a state level, to the federal level people are getting sweeheart deals and retiring and getting great pay and medical benefits, these have to be addressed for sure. To continue 2 pay someone for the next 30+ years (2 not work) from taxpayer is KILLING the taxpayers! Nevermind your political rational or ideology, it just is UNSUSTAINABLE as pure numbers, it really is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zozobra Posted January 21, 2011 Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 Heads on spikes people, heads on spikes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheRymanChu Posted January 21, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 in this economy it's too risky. not only would the loss in pay be harmful since many of us are still living paycheck to paycheck, but also, there's many people looking for jobs that would jump right into their place soon as the employer puts the word out....and probably for less money too.I know over the last year my employer flat out tells us this every time they nickel and dime us out of something. We're basically told flat out "Don't like it? Fine, we can get someone else who wants to keep there job to do it within 24 hours." No....really....QUOTE]There are jobs that are not so easy to replace due to education or legal reasons. Not so easy to replace 100,000 police officers, firefighters, bus or train drivers. These positions require a minimum of 6 months of training. I'm with 1776 that everything is on the table. However pay cuts, pension cuts and Social Security cuts will just hurt the economy worse. These people are the ones keeping the economy alive, not the upper 1% with their fresh round of tax cuts. It is true that people are getting more out of Social Security than they put in and that is unsustainable, in fact it is a Ponzi scheme. However, no politician will piss off the largest most well funded political voting block, senior citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Metalman X Posted January 21, 2011 Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 There are jobs that are not so easy to replace due to education or legal reasons. Not so easy to replace 100,000 police officers, firefighters, bus or train drivers. These positions require a minimum of 6 months of training. I'm with 1776 that everything is on the table. However pay cuts, pension cuts and Social Security cuts will just hurt the economy worse. These people are the ones keeping the economy alive, not the upper 1% with their fresh round of tax cuts. It is true that people are getting more out of Social Security than they put in and that is unsustainable, in fact it is a Ponzi scheme. However, no politician will piss off the largest most well funded political voting block, senior citizens. True, all very true indeed. Myself, I'm a tradesman...an electrician to be exact. Something that too, requires a lot of training. Trouble is, there are many electricians out there hungry for work. Many. I'm fairly certain this applies to most of the above fields as well. Except maybe cops and fireman....I can't imagine too many of them have been laid off over the years, at least I HOPE there hasn't been. And I don't think I'd wanna see what would happen if they all went on strike even for a couple of days. They shouldn't have to....like military men, for the jobs they do, these guys should be totally taken care of for life far as I'm concerned. But that would be a perfect world and as we all are all too aware of, this is far from it. And yeah, social security is a {censored}ing joke these days. It's one of the major reasons the middle class is dying out, and being {censored}ed the hardest. It's primarily our tax dollars that are funding both ends of the spectrum....the poor who by and large leech the system (I'm not saying all do, but lets be honest here about how many actually do...), and the corporate bail outs and such that continue to keep that 1% happy and content in their ivory towers. Meanwhile, guys like me are gonna have to adapt to the taste of Alpo when it comes time to retire, assuming we even live that long. All in all, there's something seriously wrong with this picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RupertB Posted January 21, 2011 Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 More short-term thinking. State & Federal governments in the US have enjoyed cheap as hell borrowing for decades. Let even one state default and we'll see those days over & right soon. States are legally barred from bankruptcy for a reason. In the long-term, bankruptcy will cost states MORE money in higher borrowing costs and only buys a little time before their so-called leaders have to do what should have been done a long time ago but they were too weak to face: Cutting spending, raising taxes, and shattering our mass illusion about having to pay for what government does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron Burgandy Posted January 21, 2011 Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 After seeing how much my brother made in the army... I'm disgusted. He was a non-combat troop in the green zone getting paid ridiculously well. Bonuses, hazard pay, etc. He got back, was given an office and even more monthly cash since he got married. I'm all for supporting troops but {censored} my brother never saw a minute of danger and he just raped them monetarily. The waste and excess in the armed forces is disgusting. {censored} the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheRymanChu Posted January 21, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 After seeing how much my brother made in the army...I'm disgusted. He was a non-combat troop in the green zone getting paid ridiculously well. Bonuses, hazard pay, etc.He got back, was given an office and even more monthly cash since he got married. I'm all for supporting troops but {censored} my brother never saw a minute of danger and he just raped them monetarily. The waste and excess in the armed forces is disgusting. {censored} the US. The military has decided that every General needs an entourage of armored cars as impressive as the Presidents. They've also decided that they needed to build a lead enclosed intelligence, computer and war room in every major building. We're talking millions upon millions upon millions in waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted January 21, 2011 Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 If u make 50K or 100K a year and you had a choice between making 45K-90K or losing your job i think you will find a way to make it on 45K!! This is not {censored}ing rocket science Maybe, but the employees of Harley-Davidson had a situation not long ago where management basically said "Look, we're not making any money. We have to cut some pay, overtime hours, and some other stuff. But, you'll all have jobs. If we can't get to an agreement, we move production overseas and you're all unemployed." About 40% of the entire workforce voted to not accept the offer from the management, essentially saying that they didn't care if they lost their jobs. People get stupid, especially when they think they're being 'protected' by a heavy-handed union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ron Burgandy Posted January 21, 2011 Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 I'm sick of this country. I don't agree with that {censored}. I'm sick of the ignorant masses being led to believe this crap is neccesary in order to keep life the same. I'm tired of our long term decisions that will shape the country for decades being made by slime ball politicians looking to get reelected in the near term resulting in quick fixes to appease morons. {censored} pandering to the uneducated assholes. Let's tighten our belts, raise some taxes, cut our military spending and do this right. People may have to live without brand new plastic trinkets, and their daily Starbucks but we may make some progress. However since no one wants to be inconveniences for even a moment... let's just declare bankruptcy today and stick our heads in the sand. Awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ***1776*** Posted January 21, 2011 Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 There are jobs that are not so easy to replace due to education or legal reasons. Not so easy to replace 100,000 police officers, firefighters, bus or train drivers. These positions require a minimum of 6 months of training. I'm with 1776 that everything is on the table. However pay cuts, pension cuts and Social Security cuts will just hurt the economy worse. These people are the ones keeping the economy alive, not the upper 1% with their fresh round of tax cuts. It is true that people are getting more out of Social Security than they put in and that is unsustainable, in fact it is a Ponzi scheme. However, no politician will piss off the largest most well funded political voting block, senior citizens. Wait a sec if everything is on the table like u claim that u want then u cant exempt some things, EVERYTHING needs to be discussed, not more of the fear mongering and hands off of my pet project BS! The unions cry foul, the contractors cry foul all while the taxpayers get soaked! Again if u make 50K a year (Just as a example) you will find a way to live on 45K a year, its better than not making a living at all, i know it sounds a lil simplistic but its applicable in this situation. The social security age will be raised for sure as well soon imo from 65 to maybe 69 or 70 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ***1776*** Posted January 21, 2011 Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 Maybe, but the employees of Harley-Davidson had a situation not long ago where management basically said "Look, we're not making any money. We have to cut some pay, overtime hours, and some other stuff. But, you'll all have jobs. If we can't get to an agreement, we move production overseas and you're all unemployed." About 40% of the entire workforce voted to not accept the offer from the management, essentially saying that they didn't care if they lost their jobs. People get stupid, especially when they think they're being 'protected' by a heavy-handed union.Is that really true? Wow no wonder why unions get such a bad rep and i was a union guy while in college in the early mid 90s while i worked in a hotel-resteruant. Some of the {censored} they use to spoon feed us was comicalAgain its time FOR THE ADULTS TO COME IN THE ROOM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheRymanChu Posted January 21, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 Wait a sec if everything is on the table like u claim that u want then u cant exempt some things, EVERYTHING needs to be discussed, not more of the fear mongering and hands off of my pet project BS! The unions cry foul, the contractors cry foul all while the taxpayers get soaked! Again if u make 50K a year (Just as a example) you will find a way to live on 45K a year, its better than not making a living at all, i know it sounds a lil simplistic but its applicable in this situation. The social security age will be raised for sure as well soon imo from 65 to maybe 69 or 70 You can bet your bottom dollar that the retirement age will be raised in the next two years. Meanwhile Congress will not tighten loopholes in the tax code. How about a flat tax with absolutely no chance of loop holes. How about making tax fraud via offshore accounts a treasonous act punishable by death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members silverfacechamp Posted January 21, 2011 Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 Is that really true? Wow no wonder why unions get such a bad rep and i was a union guy while in college in the early mid 90s while i worked in a hotel-resteruant. Some of the {censored} they use to spoon feed us was comical Again its time FOR THE ADULTS TO COME IN THE ROOM! Yup. It happened at the end of last year. Google 'harley davidson union' or something along those lines and you should get a ton of articles about it. Here's one about the vote....I was actually wrong about the split....it was 55% to 45%. http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-100912-harley-vote-advancer,0,1376390.story When you're dealing with this caliber of employee, it's no wonder companies move out of the country. Unions have a place and a purpose, but stuff like this ain't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ***1776*** Posted January 21, 2011 Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 You can bet your bottom dollar that the retirement age will be raised in the next two years. Meanwhile Congress will not tighten loopholes in the tax code. How about a flat tax with absolutely no chance of loop holes. How about making tax fraud via offshore accounts a treasonous act punishable by death. Sounds good 2 me, im with ya perhaps a flat tax with no deductions, hows that sound is that radical?I think some kind of national sales tax might be in play as well. One thing is i think we need EVERYONE pulling the boat and i mean EVERYONE. some 47% of Americans paid no federal taxes in 2009, that cant continue, we need everyone helping but we REALLY need to cut down on spedning and entitlements, the numbers simply dont add up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ovid9 Posted January 21, 2011 Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 Sounds good 2 me, im with ya perhaps a progressive tax with no deductions, hows that sound is that radical? I think some kind of national sales tax might be in play as well. One thing is i think we need EVERYONE pulling the boat and i mean EVERYONE. some 47% of Americans paid no federal taxes in 2009, that cant continue, we need everyone helping I would be firmly in agreement with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Anomaly Posted January 21, 2011 Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 I'm sick of this country. I don't agree with that {censored}.I'm sick of the ignorant masses being led to believe this crap is neccesary in order to keep life the same. I'm tired of our long term decisions that will shape the country for decades being made by slime ball politicians looking to get reelected in the near term resulting in quick fixes to appease morons. {censored} pandering to the uneducated assholes. Let's tighten our belts, raise some taxes, cut our military spending and do this right. People may have to live without brand new plastic trinkets, and their daily Starbucks but we may make some progress. However since no one wants to be inconveniences for even a moment... let's just declare bankruptcy today and stick our heads in the sand.Awesome. I can really appreciate your perspective and point of view on this subject, and I agree 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ***1776*** Posted January 21, 2011 Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 I would be firmly in agreement with this.We currently have one, no?Im NOT 100% against a progressive tax as long as we have other taxes where EVERYONE is paying and chipping in/pulling the boat and also have a vested interest in the locals, states and country! Bottom line - we CANT TAX OUR WAY out of this mess, we simply CANT CANT CANT!!! (thinking we can is off the wall) We need to address some loooong term costs or else its a {censored}ing waste of time, simple end of story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheRymanChu Posted January 21, 2011 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2011 I think that states like California and Illinois that have only themselves to blame for the financial mess that they are in should be allowed to reorganize, with one caveat. They will no longer be allowed to create their own budgets. That will either be done by the Federal government or a committee of Fortune 50 CEO and CFOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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