Members thunder100 Posted June 5, 2011 Members Share Posted June 5, 2011 Dear Community Could you point me to real music examples with the CLEAN sound use of either the vintage Deluxe Reverb or Vibrolux Reverb. Of coures 40 Watt VibLux Rvb vs 22 Wall DLX Rvb has more headroom but on the net I found some examples which sound similar and also some with very different tone*.Need to make up my mind without haveing the chance to play them(like most of us) If there is also a hint which guitar that was and what speaker would be fine Thanks Roland *Yes I know 50% comes from speaker and a bit from pickups on the guitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members akapuli Posted June 6, 2011 Members Share Posted June 6, 2011 IMHO: Dire Straits discography (75%) for the Vibrolux Motown records and especially Aretha Franklin for the Deluxe Reverb Despite the similarities, they still sound different In the EU it's almost impossible to find a vintage Vibrolux on sale. Maybe Silverface, but not even those are common here. The newer Vibrolux is a different thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reauchambeau Posted June 6, 2011 Members Share Posted June 6, 2011 how could you compare them unless you had the same player play the same thing with the same guitar, through each amp. Fender amps (silverface and blackface) basically all sound the same. like you've said the headroom and speakers will be the variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wyatt Posted June 6, 2011 Members Share Posted June 6, 2011 Some things to chew on. Overall, the Deluxe Reverb is a bit more aggressive and harder to keep clean. It's pushing it's power tubes past their published specs (you have to be careful about buying power tubes), where as the VR isn't even trying to get the most out of the 6L6GC; The VR runs lower plate voltages and a smaller OT than the other Fender 6L6GC combos and is a little more anemic sounding compared to Super Rev, Pro Rev, etc. Ultimately the VR is mellower and has more clean room in its volume taper. Only late SF VR's are 40 watts, BF and early SF are 35 watts. Ultimately we are talking at less than 3db difference with DR, so a DR with a more efficient speaker may actually keep up or surpass a VR with less efficient speakers. A stock DR has a bright capo that is permanently inline on the Vibrato channel. On the VR, the cap value is different and it is switchable. The DR has a little higher voltage in the preamp, making things a little stiffer with a little more preamp headroom, and a little more gain if cranked. The DR seems to always have a little more midrange in its tone stack, that may be perception, it's been a while since I've looked at the circuit designs. While I'm not one who puts a lot of stock in power tubes having a dramatic affect on tone, the DR has 6V6GT's, which are closest to being lower output EL34's than they are to 6L6GC. The 6V6GT don't have the (scooped) midrange "kink" of larger Amercian power beam pentodes and they have a raunchy breakup when driven. IMHO:Dire Straits discography (75%) for the Vibrolux. Wrong Vibrolux, Knopfler's is a Brownface Vibrolux, less sparkle/shimmer, more aggressive, and more mids than the Vibrolux Reverb. Plus there is some debate over whether the Brown Vibrolux was used much on Dire Straits recordings. A good example of the Vibrolux is the Notting Hillbillies stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thunder100 Posted June 6, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2011 Thanks a lot Helps me a bit further.Need to make up my mind as I want a BF clone for mostly clean playing(High gain I can use my Mark V or the Axe-Fx Ultra) I tried the Princeton Reissue,was not sold to,and I hear/feel its close to the Mark I(Princeton on steroids somehow) So the remaining choice is Vibrolux or Deluxe Reverb (Firebelly).I will listen to above suggestions and try to play when I next month fly to LA Thanks Roland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johnny'sGotTheBlues Posted June 6, 2011 Members Share Posted June 6, 2011 Check out Roy Buchanan for examples of a Vibrolux Reverb and Tele. The main differences between the amps are 2 6L6s vs 2 6V6s and one 12" vs 2x10". My experience says the VR will have more clean headroom that the DR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cibyl Posted June 6, 2011 Members Share Posted June 6, 2011 Some things to chew on.Overall, the Deluxe Reverb is a bit more aggressive and harder to keep clean. It's pushing it's power tubes past their published specs (you have to be careful about buying power tubes), where as the VR isn't even trying to get the most out of the 6L6GC; The VR runs lower plate voltages and a smaller OT than the other Fender 6L6GC combos and is a little more anemic sounding compared to Super Rev, Pro Rev, etc. Ultimately the VR is mellower and has more clean room in its volume taper.Only late SF VR's are 40 watts, BF and early SF are 35 watts. Ultimately we are talking at less than 3db difference with DR, so a DR with a more efficient speaker may actually keep up or surpass a VR with less efficient speakers.A stock DR has a bright capo that is permanently inline on the Vibrato channel. On the VR, the cap value is different and it is switchable.The DR has a little higher voltage in the preamp, making things a little stiffer with a little more preamp headroom, and a little more gain if cranked.The DR seems to always have a little more midrange in its tone stack, that may be perception, it's been a while since I've looked at the circuit designs.While I'm not one who puts a lot of stock in power tubes having a dramatic affect on tone, the DR has 6V6GT's, which are closest to being lower output EL34's than they are to 6L6GC. The 6V6GT don't have the (scooped) midrange "kink" of larger Amercian power beam pentodes and they have a raunchy breakup when driven.Wrong Vibrolux, Knopfler's is a Brownface Vibrolux, less sparkle/shimmer, more aggressive, and more mids than the Vibrolux Reverb. Plus there is some debate over whether the Brown Vibrolux was used much on Dire Straits recordings. A good example of the Vibrolux is the Notting Hillbillies stuff. Great info, thanks. I actually have a chance to buy each of these amps, both are Silverface - 1970 Vibrolux and a '69 Deluxe. Which do you like better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mister Crow Posted June 6, 2011 Members Share Posted June 6, 2011 I think I've seen those two silverfaces that you're pondering. Man they look nice. If I had to chose one, I'd go with the Vibrolux, only because they seem to be harder to come by, and I love 10" speakers in a Fender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wyatt Posted June 6, 2011 Members Share Posted June 6, 2011 I think I've seen those two silverfaces that you're pondering. Man they look nice. If I had to chose one, I'd go with the Vibrolux, only because they seem to be harder to come by, and I love 10" speakers in a Fender. They used to be the big bargain of the Fender combos. Back when Deluxe Reverbs skyrocketed about a decade (or more) ago, you could by a comparable Vibrolux Reverb or even Pro Reverb for half the price of a DR. I haven't priced them in a logn time though. Personally, I think the VR's are just a little underpowered, it's not the output that bothers me it;s that they just don't have the same "umph!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mister Crow Posted June 6, 2011 Members Share Posted June 6, 2011 Maybe the Deluxe Reverb would be the better choice. I re-read the OP's needs, and he's looking for the one that stays cleaner, and after reading your descriptions Wyatt, I think the Deluxe would suit his needs better. I keep hearing about it being a buyers market, but I haven't seen any evidence. Due to some crazy life circumstances, I am now ampless. I'm looking at a 1976 Fender Deluxe Reverb for $850 firm. Does this seem about the going rate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wyatt Posted June 7, 2011 Members Share Posted June 7, 2011 Maybe the Deluxe Reverb would be the better choice. I re-read the OP's needs, and he's looking for the one that stays cleaner, and after reading your descriptions Wyatt, I think the Deluxe would suit his needs better. I keep hearing about it being a buyers market, but I haven't seen any evidence. Due to some crazy life circumstances, I am now ampless. I'm looking at a 1976 Fender Deluxe Reverb for $850 firm. Does this seem about the going rate? Yep. I'm a big fan of the mid-'70's SFDR's. technically, they aren't made quite as well as the BF, but they have more of the clean shimmer we associate with Fender reverb combos. Not quite a smooth when the break up, but not a drastic difference either. I actually modded to my Allen Accomplice for more cleans and called in "silverfacing" it. I big boost for the SFDR is the power transformer is beefier and can handle 6LGC's (with a SS rectifier of Weber Copper Cap to take a little stress of of the PT). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mister Crow Posted June 7, 2011 Members Share Posted June 7, 2011 Well that has me thinking, thanks Wyatt. I'm actually scheduled to check out a mid-70's Fender Vibro Champ tomorrow for $275. This seems like a pretty good deal, but it's smaller than I would prefer. I was just going to get it until I found a Deluxe Reverb for a better price than the $850 one. Maybe I should hold onto the $275 and just roll it into the 1976 Deluxe Reverb if chances are I'm not going to find one at a much better price than $850. I'm avoiding the re-issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reauchambeau Posted June 7, 2011 Members Share Posted June 7, 2011 Well that has me thinking, thanks Wyatt. I'm actually scheduled to check out a mid-70's Fender Vibro Champ tomorrow for $275. This seems like a pretty good deal, but it's smaller than I would prefer. I was just going to get it until I found a Deluxe Reverb for a better price than the $850 one. Maybe I should hold onto the $275 and just roll it into the 1976 Deluxe Reverb if chances are I'm not going to find one at a much better price than $850. I'm avoiding the re-issues. very good plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MojoFilter Posted June 7, 2011 Members Share Posted June 7, 2011 This is one of the better articles comparing and describing the vintage blackface Deluxe Reverb, Vibrolux Reverb and Princeton Reverb amps: http://www.tonequest.com/articles/article2.htm You'd do well to read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheRymanChu Posted June 7, 2011 Members Share Posted June 7, 2011 Fender amps (silverface and blackface) basically all sound the same. What brand of batteries do you use in your hearing aid? Replace them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members akapuli Posted June 7, 2011 Members Share Posted June 7, 2011 Thanks a lotHelps me a bit further.Need to make up my mind as I want a BF clone for mostly clean playing(High gain I can use my Mark V or the Axe-Fx Ultra)I tried the Princeton Reissue,was not sold to,and I hear/feel its close to the Mark I(Princeton on steroids somehow) I don't quite understand your quest. With the Mark V you could get almost all the good tones known in the history. Maybe the cleans are not that 3D, but very close to the BF. However the Mark I and the Princeton Reissue are not similar sounding IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thunder100 Posted June 7, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 7, 2011 Well that has me thinking, thanks Wyatt. I'm actually scheduled to check out a mid-70's Fender Vibro Champ tomorrow for $275. This seems like a pretty good deal, but it's smaller than I would prefer. I was just going to get it until I found a Deluxe Reverb for a better price than the $850 one. Maybe I should hold onto the $275 and just roll it into the 1976 Deluxe Reverb if chances are I'm not going to find one at a much better price than $850. I'm avoiding the re-issues. I have a 74 SF Vibro Champ,and will never sell (was for a NOS kind 400$ time ago) it has some part of that shimmer(but no Reverb) and just lacks a bit of clean headroom and the DR reverb and tone controls.Just Wyatts post above of mid-'70's SFDR's makes me think again-->I am after clean(Crunch upwards I have) and that shimmer not necessarily need the blackface label-->lets see Medical Problem is that I have this tone in my head and want to get it-->but thats known on this forum quite well I guess. Thanks anyway for this nice discussion. Roland Vienna/Austria/Europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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