Members Disco Cat Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 They be very different sounding beasts? Never played an 800, but have considered off and on trading my 410h for one. Probably just flirting with the thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitarist+ Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 The JVM is a beast, if I owned a JVM I wouldn't consider trading it for {censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Killa J Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 I've owned both. The JVM has a lot more to offer, and can get decently close to sounding like a JCM800. However, it's missing something that the 800 has. After I sold my JVM, I read about some mods that will get you even closer to the 800 in terms of sound and feel. Something to do with less negative feedback. Probably not worth trading unless you aren't happy with the JVM, especially with all the mods for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nerine Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 I've owned both. I now have an 800. The JVM doesn't sound as present and 'there' as the 800. The 800 feels better, doesn't have sponginess engineered into the tone, doesn't have a massive network of circuitry, resistors and capacitors and filters for the guitar signal to travel through etc. The 800 is THE modern sounding Marshall to have. It sounds very real next to the JVM. FWIW, I'd take a DSL over the JVM. They feel better to play. My favourite production Marshall's in order are JCM800 JTM45 DSL100 Bluesbreaker 1974x 2061x Etc The JVM and VM are basically at the bottom of my list. In summation: An 800 is FAR better than a JVM. Not just in tone, but how the amp responds, feels, plays etc. It's far more real and organic sounding. It doesn't sound like the tones have been engineered into it as they do the JVM. It just sounds and responds like a great classic amp should/does. If you are only interested in lots of knobs, buttons, switches, are worried about reverb, absolutely must have 4 channels () need your preamp section to have loads of unusable gain, and like all the filtering sounds that provide you with "real emulations" (oxymoron much) of classic Marshall circuits, then go for it..... If you want something that sounds better, feels better, has more of a natural/real tone, is better built, is more reliable, is just as flexible if you have an ounce of savvy, and is just FAAARRR cooler to boot, then get an 800 and thank me later.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members STEEL KAGE Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 I've owned both. I now have an 800. The JVM doesn't sound as present and 'there' as the 800. The 800 feels better, doesn't have sponginess engineered into the tone, doesn't have a massive network of circuitry, resistors and capacitors and filters for the guitar signal to travel through etc. The 800 is THE modern sounding Marshall to have. It sounds very real next to the JVM. FWIW, I'd take a DSL over the JVM. They feel better to play. My favourite production Marshall's in order are JCM800 JTM45 DSL100 Bluesbreaker 1974x 2061x Etc The JVM and VM are basically at the bottom of my list. In summation: An 800 is FAR better than a JVM. Not just in tone, but how the amp responds, feels, plays etc. It's far more real and organic sounding. It doesn't sound like the tones have been engineered into it as they do the JVM. It just sounds and responds like a great classic amp should/does. If you are only interested in lots of knobs, buttons, switches, are worried about reverb, absolutely must have 4 channels ( ) need your preamp section to have loads of unusable gain, and like all the filtering sounds that provide you with "real emulations" (oxymoron much) of classic Marshall circuits, then go for it..... If you want something that sounds better, feels better, has more of a natural/real tone, is better built, is more reliable, is just as flexible if you have an ounce of savvy, and is just FAAARRR cooler to boot, then get an 800 and thank me later.... Disagreed to all, with VERY minor tweeks and adjustments, the JVM is every bit as good and in most cases better than everything that you mentioned in every respect but like anything, thats subjective.. After you throw the features in to the mix, the JVM is a no brainer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JaGi Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 Nerine you just sound snobbish there mate, played an 800 and had my JVM side by side with an SLX. I understand what you say about feeling more present but i think that is to do with the overall volume, JVM is better at low volume and fills out when you turn it up. The JVM circuit really isn't that crazy and they have the original tone stack structure for each channel. The JVMs and 800s are built in the same factory, the 800 has the benefit of weeding out all manufacturing issues over so many years. My JVM is solid. OP: What channel do you use most? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 I'd take any of the 2 channel JCM-800's or a Jubilee over a JVM. I'd rather have just a 2203. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nerine Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 Disagreed to all, with VERY minor tweeks and adjustments, the JVM is every bit as good and in most cases better than everything that you mentioned in every respect but like anything, thats subjective.. After you throw the features in to the mix, the JVM is a no brainer Maybe if you like the sounds that it produces. I don't, which is only my opinion of course, and having one great core sound is much more important to me than having loads of lesser ones. I have always got massive arrays of tones out of one guitar and a single channel amp. With the inclusion of the fx loop on my 800, it's just as versatile and flexible as a JVM IMO. Ok, it doesn't have speaker emulated line outs, midi, modes, reverb, and whatever other bells and whistles it has, but those sorts of things are useless to me. For some they may be important, but I like to keep things clean and simple. The unaffected tone, i.e. Wherever the amp is set, A good boost in front, a volume boost in the loop, and roll down the volume for cleans. That's basically four "channels" straight off the bat how I run things.... Clean, OD, higher gain, solo. I have also got the added bonus of it sounding like a JCM800 to start with I thought you were an avid Axe Fx'er anyway, Kage?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Disco Cat Posted August 24, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 The thing I really want to nab from the 800 is the super smooth sounding lead tone that it seems to be highly capable of. I get a pretty gritty one from my JVM. Any mods to help move the JVM in that direction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cold Gin Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 JCM800 >>> JVM Proof - Slayer, GNR, AC/DC, Megadeth, RATT and tons of other bands who have played JCM800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IbanezJon Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 Proof is in the ear of the beholder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cold Gin Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 If ur ear doesnt like all the classics that were recorded with JCM 800s then ur ears are not functioning properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nerine Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 Nerine you just sound snobbish there mateThe JVM circuit really isn't that crazy and they have the original tone stack structure for each channel. The JVMs and 800s are built in the same factory Why? I am fairly critical over what I hear. Remember I just returned a Bogner Ecstasy because I thought it sounded pretty rubbish actually. I know what I like my amps to sound like. Ok, the original tone stack structure. That isn't factoring in the myriad other things that contribute to the overall tone. No offended intended but this means nothing. The amps are constructed/designed very differently. Aren't the pots on the JVM circuit board mounted for a kick off? I know they have a spongy feeling to them if you move them. I'd hate to accidentally break one off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitarist+ Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 JCM800 >>> JVMProof - Slayer, GNR, AC/DC, Megadeth, RATT and tons of other bands who have played JCM800. Megadeth uses the JVM410, fool. Or at the very least, they currently do. AC/DC uses the Plexi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Disco Cat Posted August 24, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 Aren't the pots on the JVM circuit board mounted for a kick off? I know they have a spongy feeling to them if you move them. I'd hate to accidentally break one off... The older JVM's are that way, they changed that some time ago and the nobs since then are nice and firm, like my... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mesa/Kramer Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 Unless your going to be able to crank the master on the 800 to around 4 or 5 on a regular basis, stick with the JVM. The JVM is the best sounding marshall made at lower volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members timmyfirst Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 I personally think the 800 slaughters the JVM in every way. I could only find one good sound in all those channels and modes of the JVM 410h and even then it was still a bit too synthetic and compressed for what i like, plus that switching system is slow and {censored}. I'm not a huge 800 fanboi but i'd take one over the JVM anyday, i just think the design and overall package is far superior. I very much doubt that Marshall will be making JVM's in 30 years time, but the 800 is a total classic and will always be in the Marshall catalogue. My favourite Marshall is the DSL100, in my opinion there is nothing that the DSL cant do, its a fantastic amp, i've owned 5 of them and they've always been super reliable for touring and recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tech21man Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 Megadeth uses the JVM410, fool. Or at the very least, they currently do.AC/DC uses the Plexi Mega{censored} use digitech GSP1101 and axe-fx into marshall power amps and that is it. Mustaine uses the digitech, I am not even sure if they mic the cabs or go DI and call it a day and monitor through the cabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JaGi Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 Why? I am fairly critical over what I hear. Remember I just returned a Bogner Ecstasy because I thought it sounded pretty rubbish actually. I know what I like my amps to sound like. Ok, the original tone stack structure. That isn't factoring in the myriad other things that contribute to the overall tone. No offended intended but this means nothing. The amps are constructed/designed very differently. Aren't the pots on the JVM circuit board mounted for a kick off? I know they have a spongy feeling to them if you move them. I'd hate to accidentally break one off... Fair enough but like someone else said they sorted the knobs after the initial run, for anything low volume or high gain the JVM has it right outta the box. The crunch red 800 channel on the JVM sounds great for me, about as close as i think anyone could get without buying an original 800? I always wanted a modded 800 but the JVM has those sounds ready to go, plus it is more versatile. The JVM is like marmite around here for some reason, i found that different cabs can make the crunch sound great or a bit lacking so i can see why. I agree with you on the VM though, that thing was a waste of production and not necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tech21man Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 I've owned both. I now have an 800. The JVM doesn't sound as present and 'there' as the 800. The 800 feels better, doesn't have sponginess engineered into the tone, doesn't have a massive network of circuitry, resistors and capacitors and filters for the guitar signal to travel through etc. The 800 is THE modern sounding Marshall to have. It sounds very real next to the JVM. FWIW, I'd take a DSL over the JVM. They feel better to play. My favourite production Marshall's in order are JCM800 JTM45 DSL100 Bluesbreaker 1974x 2061x Etc The JVM and VM are basically at the bottom of my list. In summation: An 800 is FAR better than a JVM. Not just in tone, but how the amp responds, feels, plays etc. It's far more real and organic sounding. It doesn't sound like the tones have been engineered into it as they do the JVM. It just sounds and responds like a great classic amp should/does. If you are only interested in lots of knobs, buttons, switches, are worried about reverb, absolutely must have 4 channels ( ) need your preamp section to have loads of unusable gain, and like all the filtering sounds that provide you with "real emulations" (oxymoron much) of classic Marshall circuits, then go for it..... If you want something that sounds better, feels better, has more of a natural/real tone, is better built, is more reliable, is just as flexible if you have an ounce of savvy, and is just FAAARRR cooler to boot, then get an 800 and thank me later.... There is a tech on the JVM forum that more or less agrees to what you are saying. Also he uses a 410h religioussly. All of what you describe as "negatives" are more or less audible with the JVM which I guess for some may matter to a degree. But this tech claims that the amps live are close enough to rock n roll and if not, having the same power amp components and changing the ones that don't match up in certain points of the circuits can open up uncompress and basically bring the JVM to the same feel level of the 800. His notes were that santiago alvarez which is the designer of the JVM went for a tighter more trebley modern gainy preampy sound with the jvm but allowed for the older sounds to be achieved with some settings. Bear in mind that he noted those differences comparatively and not as if the JVM went into splawn nitro of diezel gain territory or something. Just vs the older style marshalls. So he did manage to change things about the amp (filtering and negative feedback and the first input gain stage which is different) and bring it "scaringly close" to his 800 and plexi, all in the same amp!!! Satriani is ready to put out a 410h signature. Changes are less gain and compression and a different ressonance frequency on the ressonance control along with a noise gate. That means changing 3-4 caps top. And santiago alvarez insists that purity is not really an issue with the JVM: Parts of the circuit that are not used are taken out hard bypass or at least he claims so. I almost must say that the amp is not indeed "full tube" as the signal does pass through a mosfet for the ressonance circuit all the time but this is nothing compared to boosts up front or volumes or eq in the loop!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitarist+ Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 Mega{censored} use digitech GSP1101 and axe-fx into marshall power amps and that is it. Mustaine uses the digitech, I am not even sure if they mic the cabs or go DI and call it a day and monitor through the cabs. No... that is their live rig. In the studio he used the JVM for endgame, at the very LEAST on Endgame, he may have used it on even earlier albums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitarist+ Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 Yay for research! [video=youtube;G9cKCATc4wg] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tech21man Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 In the studio they could use I guess anything. But...why not live one should wander. I also knew about the 410 for endgame and that it was out as a DM edition with carbon fibre look. Still live use is wtf about them. Satriani does indeed use them with chickenfoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitarist+ Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 In the studio they could use I guess anything. But...why not live one should wander. I also knew about the 410 for endgame and that it was out as a DM edition with carbon fibre look. Still live use is wtf about them. Satriani does indeed use them with chickenfoot. Because, when they are playing live, they have to play songs from before endgame. These songs (the pre-endgame ones) were not recorded using a Marshall JVM So to get the tones more accurately, he uses the DigiTech pre-amp to get as close to the sound of all of his previous recordings as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cavemanic Posted August 24, 2011 Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 I've owned both. I now have an 800. The JVM doesn't sound as present and 'there' as the 800. The 800 feels better, doesn't have sponginess engineered into the tone, doesn't have a massive network of circuitry, resistors and capacitors and filters for the guitar signal to travel through etc. The 800 is THE modern sounding Marshall to have. It sounds very real next to the JVM. FWIW, I'd take a DSL over the JVM. They feel better to play. My favourite production Marshall's in order are JCM800 JTM45 DSL100 Bluesbreaker 1974x 2061x Etc The JVM and VM are basically at the bottom of my list. In summation: An 800 is FAR better than a JVM. Not just in tone, but how the amp responds, feels, plays etc. It's far more real and organic sounding. It doesn't sound like the tones have been engineered into it as they do the JVM. It just sounds and responds like a great classic amp should/does. If you are only interested in lots of knobs, buttons, switches, are worried about reverb, absolutely must have 4 channels ( ) need your preamp section to have loads of unusable gain, and like all the filtering sounds that provide you with "real emulations" (oxymoron much) of classic Marshall circuits, then go for it..... If you want something that sounds better, feels better, has more of a natural/real tone, is better built, is more reliable, is just as flexible if you have an ounce of savvy, and is just FAAARRR cooler to boot, then get an 800 and thank me later.... lol you didn't even mention the 30th anniversary fail right there bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.