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How much gain does one REALLY need........


fridgit

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...... for metal?

I'm talking about along the different styles of Dream Theater, Megadeth, McTallica, Iron Maiden, Kreator, Lamb of God.


Been playing my 5153 mini since Feb-March and, as much as I do love it, I feel that the gain and compression on channel 3 are way too much. For channel 3, I keep the gain knob at about 9:00-10:00 & this usually helps reduce some of the compression and over-the-top gain. Although I do this to help reduce he gain and compression, I can't help but feel limited in my tonal options on channel 3 (and the lack of channel one's volume). This 5153 mini is slowly becoming a one channel wonder for me, as I find the gain in channel 2 enough for the types of bands I listed above - without a boost. Still, the raw tone on channel 2 is pretty damn sweet!

Guess I'm just looking for some more experienced opinions than my own as well as some general guidance as to what the hell I need!

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Contrary to the popular consensus on HCAF, I tend to use a {censored} load of gain when playing the heaviest of metalz live, though my amp is quite usable throughout the entire range of the gain knobs and has a huge dynamic range. My main metal tone is my Deliverance 60 set to "less" mode, with both gain knobs set at 3:00 and a boost pedal up front.

For recording, using less gain than usual is a good idea though, especially when multi-tracking parts.

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It goes hand in hand with voicing. Rectifiers don't actually have THAT much gain, but the voicing makes it sound a lot heavier. Personally I need a thick voicing with enough gain to match. Somewhere in the 90's amount of gain, the whole 80's thrash thing doesn't satisfy me.

And just to let you know, most iconic amps are a 1 channel wonder redface.gif. Marshall, Fender, Peavey 5150, Mesa Rectifier Solo series.

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Let me start by saying that Keator is the only band you listed that uses a 5150. Kreator used 5150s for a long time, then switched to engl pretty recently and and now uses evh 5153.
All the other bands you listed are on the opposite side of the tone spectrum from the evh 5150.
Are you trying to achieve the tone that these band have? If yes, then you probably have the wrong amp. You may want to consider a Mesa mark iv/v. My opinion is this, If the amp doesn't inspire you to play then its the wrong amp.
How much is enough gain? All 5150 makes and models have a ridiculous amount of gain. I always go between 4-6 on the gain with these amps, just depends on how much saturation and compression I want.

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Its about the liquid lead feel for me. I find that I use a lot of gain at first and then I taper it back overtime. Amazing how an amp will change feel once all the tubes get heated up.

At a gig turn your amp on 45 minutes to an hour before the gig if possible. Your amp will be a beast from the get go.

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Its about the liquid lead feel for me. I find that I use a lot of gain at first and then I taper it back overtime. Amazing how an amp will change feel once all the tubes get heated up.

At a gig turn your amp on 45 minutes to an hour before the gig if possible. Your amp will be a beast from the get go.

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Quote Originally Posted by stompboxfreak72 View Post
Its about the liquid lead feel for me. I find that I use a lot of gain at first and then I taper it back overtime. Amazing how an amp will change feel once all the tubes get heated up.

At a gig turn your amp on 45 minutes to an hour before the gig if possible. Your amp will be a beast from the get go.
This is a fallacy. The only thing that will affect is tube life.
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It's all about how it sounds. Some amps have a great mid gain sound that produces the right feel without needing gobs of gain, and some amps don't sound any good unless you plow them with gain. Just depends on the gain structure. I prefer less gain with more low end.

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It's all about how it sounds. Some amps have a great mid gain sound that produces the right feel without needing gobs of gain, and some amps don't sound any good unless you plow them with gain. Just depends on the gain structure. I prefer less gain with more low end.

 

 

Thanks. I am like you in this respect - less gain, more mids and lows.

 

 

Thank you to everyone for helping me out. I know some of my queries seem trivial, but the responses in this thread really helped to set my mind at ease about my amp. My cover band and metal band have been on hiatus for the past couple of months and I haven't been able to really crank my amp up! I think I'm havin' withdrawals......

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It's all about how it sounds. Some amps have a great mid gain sound that produces the right feel without needing gobs of gain, and some amps don't sound any good unless you plow them with gain. Just depends on the gain structure. I prefer less gain with more low end.

 

 

I agree, some just sound better with more gain. I think some amps are not meant to have the gain dimed, but the only way to get the desired gain structure is to have it have that much gain. Like a 5150 for example has very usable gain between 4-7. Maybe some of the more experienced amp builders on this forum can comment on it.

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A decent player needs whatever the style he's going for needs.

 

Pretty much. :idk:

 

I use different amounts of gain for different stuff. In the band my main sound has more gain than I'd usually be happy using. But it's different kind of stuff to what I'd normally play, and playing with less gain (which I tried doing by default back when we started) made things sound pretty pissweak. The guitar isn't necessarily the focus in the sound, so not only does it not really matter that it's not as clear sounding as I'd normally go for, if anything it helps to just make things sound heavier. Although then we have a couple of things that use my normal band sound, pitch shifted down an octave, plus a fuzz. Ridiculous amounts of fuzzy distorted mess going on, but it's what the material needs.

 

For my own recording stuff, I'd generally dial it back a bit. But it's usually a lot more precise kind of playing involved, plus then there's the layering and whatnot. For some stuff though I might need more. Or less. Just depends. :idk:

 

That said, my idea of a lot of gain stops way short of monstrous amounts. I also like a little bit of depth or looseness in the sound. Not Recto looseness, but I'm not into the razor sharp sound.

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