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Amp Preferred for a back line


DBR

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Hi folks,
New to the Guitar forum. I am a sound guy and bass player but we are looking for a guitar amp to help with our backline. We are on a budget and when the time is right, will need at least one guitar amp to continue with our backline. What would you suggest besides the weaponry of a Marshall? We don't want anything too loud, large or obnoxious in tone and something that is easy to mic. We are considering Vox, Mesa or Fender? Which models? Would anyone not consider playing through one of these mentioned? Personally, Marshalls assault my ears. Thanks. As a sound guy, I like things under control volumewise, so everything can go through monitors which really helps the FOH mix. I know most guitar players like their amps on 15, which doesn't come across to the audience so well The result? Guitars are left out of the FOH mix, which makes it sound unblended and unbalanced. Just thought I'd add that in. Thanks for your understanding,folks.

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Backline is for what type of event and style of Music?

For a large variety of tones, most Mesa amps will do good Dirty, clean etc to cover a broad base.

Mk V
Mk IV
Mk III
Electrodyne
F series
DC series
Atlantic series
Express


On another note, as a sound guy, i would direct them to turn down the amp if they have it set to loud and offer to put more of them in thier monitor mix to better hear themselves on stage.
Going for super low wattage amps to combat this is not the answer.

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Kemper. This way you'll have a near infinite array of tones, don't have to mic anything, and the stage volume goes down since you're only putting out guitars through the monitors. And if you're afraid of it breaking, keep it in the mixing booth.

And if you're looking for something that's cheap, robust and doesn't take a lot of room, look into the EHX Magnum44 + AMT Legend preamp combination.

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What situation is it actually for? Personally I'd always rather use my own amp for any gig - when I turn up at a venue and the sound guy is telling me I should use the house amp he's put on stage I don't like it very much, because the amp is part of my instrument - it'd be like a guitarist turning up and telling you what mixing desk he wants you to use.

No matter what amp you pick, some guitarists won't care what it is, some will care but be able to work with it, and some will find it totally unsuitable for what they want and have to play the entire gig through gritted teeth. Since most of the guitarists who do care will bring their own amp anyway, you only really need to worry about the ones who don't care what they play through. So I guess logically it doesn't really matter what it is - get something with a clean and distorted channel that's not too complicated.

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If it was me I'd go with Fender since it can give a decent clean, as well as loud if needed, tone that people can use pedals on to get their tones from. the Hotrod series has lots of models to choose from depending on your budget and feature requirements etc.

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Quote Originally Posted by yourguitarhero View Post
Mesa amps are a bit complicated to dial in.
If you were to go for one, since you're on a budget the F-50 combo is pretty easy to set up (doesn't have loads of little switches for options)

I still stand by the Peavey Bandit though.
Correct in both options. F-50 is great, for a various of styles but with its own, steady voice. The bandit is gain versatile, it can sound like a 5150 a bit, or like the ultra series (modern) or like a more classic amp and it is insanely loud!
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Quote Originally Posted by DBR View Post
Hi folks,
New to the Guitar forum. I am a sound guy and bass player but we are looking for a guitar amp to help with our backline. We are on a budget and when the time is right, will need at least one guitar amp to continue with our backline. What would you suggest besides the weaponry of a Marshall? We don't want anything too loud, large or obnoxious in tone and something that is easy to mic. We are considering Vox, Mesa or Fender? Which models? Would anyone not consider playing through one of these mentioned? Personally, Marshalls assault my ears. Thanks. As a sound guy, I like things under control volumewise, so everything can go through monitors which really helps the FOH mix. I know most guitar players like their amps on 15, which doesn't come across to the audience so well The result? Guitars are left out of the FOH mix, which makes it sound unblended and unbalanced. Just thought I'd add that in. Thanks for your understanding,folks.
50 watt EVH 5150 III w/212 cab

Put it on a stand or a head case and point it at the drummer (side fill style) and let the guitar players turn it up to where it sounds good. This way you get to mic it and run it in the FOH mix and get an awesome sound out of it at the same time.
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I'd say the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. It can do anything. Distortion guys can bring their distortion pedals, clean guys can use the cleans on the amp which are bar standard good. It has an effects loop for guys using effects in the effects loop. It has good reverb. It's just an overall amp that anyone can do anything they want with it. They can be bought used for pretty cheap.

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I would get a 1960 cab and a cheap head, like a JCA22 or 20. That way you have a good sounding rig and also have the option of allowing players to bring their own head and use the cab with it.

I don't use distortion pedals on my rig, all my distortion comes from my amp, so if I have to play with a backline, it would have to be something that has a good distortion channel or better yet, a good cab so I can plug my rig into it. So Voxes and Fenders combos should be out of question.

As a bass player and soundguy, I don't expect you to understand a lot about guitar rigs, but the fact is many players will rely on their amp for their main tone, so having an industry standard cab and allowing them to plug in their rigs is definitely the way to go. And a cheap, good sounding head for those who are cool with using the house amp with pedals.

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I've used backline amps a bunch and I'm always happy when I see a Twin Reverb. Its not really small or quiet but its what i see most often.

When someone tells me I'll be using the house amp, I know to bring my pedalboard. A few pedals plus a Twin Reverb and I'm good to go for any gig I would ever do. However, if you're not a pedal user, you would be screwed.

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Quote Originally Posted by yourguitarhero View Post
Peavey Bandit 1x12" combo
Cheap, sounds good, reliable. No valves so doesn't have to be cranked up to sound its best. Also less for boneheads to break.
The lowly Bandit doesn't get much love but it's a good amp - provided you mostly generate your tone from pedal or preamp (my opinion, worth what you paid for it biggrin.gif ). It can benefit from a replacement speaker.

The Mesa F series is also a good deal, very flexible and just a good sounding amp that's generally pretty player friendly. Not sure why they aren't more popular.

My rule is that it's a rare gig that a 50w amp with a pair of 12s can't handle. Look at many pros playing big stage gigs, and they've got a miked 2x12 out there. Sure a 4x12 has a special for playing we all love, but screaming stage volumes make everyone sound like a mess, usually.

Are you using in ear monitors yet ?
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As a bass player and soundguy, I don't expect you to understand a lot about guitar rigs, but the fact is many players will rely on their amp for their main tone, so
having an industry standard cab and allowing them to plug in their rigs
is definitely the way to go. And a cheap, good sounding head for those who are cool with using the house amp with pedals.

 

Agree 100%!

 

BTW, if you have to tell the guitar player to turn down more than once, then he's probably not experienced enough for the amp to matter anyway..... :idk:

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BTW, if you have to tell the guitar player to turn down more than once, then he's probably not experienced enough for the amp to matter anyway.....
:idk:

 

yep. I use 100w tube heads and never had an issue working with the soundguy, all my amps had master volumes and I know how to tweak them to work at any volume. Whatever the sound guy tells me it's the loudest I can go, I can make it work.

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yep. I use 100w tube heads and never had an issue working with the soundguy, all my amps had master volumes and I know how to tweak them to work at any volume. Whatever the sound guy tells me it's the loudest I can go, I can make it work.

 

 

This has always been a problem for me. I prefer NMV amps/old Marshalls, and, well, we know how those work with sound guys. Some guys totally are just like "yeah, crank it up man, whatever you want we'll make it work" which is totally awesome and I'm super appreciative. But then there are the real sticklers, with whom I usually end up verbally fighting with. "Bro that guitar has to come down." "Then I lose my distortion. Can't play this music clean." "But it's too loud." "Well what do you want me to do? There is absolutely nothing I can do to make this quieter." I don't really feel like I should invest $300 in an attenuator just to appease a few sound guys. Venues should have attenuators just like they have mics; if they want the FOH mix to sound a certain way, that's really their issue, is it not?

 

I always get a little stressed out when I fire up my Super Lead and buddy mics my cab(s) up haha

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This has always been a problem for me. I prefer NMV amps/old Marshalls, and, well, we know how those work with sound guys. Some guys totally are just like "yeah, crank it up man, whatever you want we'll make it work" which is totally awesome and I'm super appreciative. But then there are the real sticklers, with whom I usually end up verbally fighting with. "Bro that guitar has to come down." "Then I lose my distortion. Can't play this music clean." "But it's too loud." "Well what do you want me to do? There is absolutely nothing I can do to make this quieter." I don't really feel like I should invest $300 in an attenuator just to appease a few sound guys. Venues should have attenuators just like they have mics; if they want the FOH mix to sound a certain way, that's really their issue, is it not?


I always get a little stressed out when I fire up my Super Lead and buddy mics my cab(s) up haha

 

yeah it's one of the reasons why I don't use NMV amps or even MV amps that don't have a good MV taper or sound too thin at low volumes, I really don't want to get into this type of argument with sound guys. I also do have an attenuator, but I use that at home mostly, as a load box.

 

The Laney is one of the loudest amps I've ever played, but I can turn it way down and get a great tone out of it if needed. It won't be as good as it is when it's loud, but certainly good enough for the gig.

 

But I also prefer to play in places that are actually properly set up to host rock concerts and are ok with mic'ing loud guitar amps. My last show a few weeks ago was at one of these venues, I turned my amp to its optimal level, which is pretty {censored}ing devastating :lol: and the guy mic'd in and turned it further up in the FOH. Good sound guy, he got a mix that was really loud and really good. No one complained about it because it is a rock n roll venue and people are there to listen to loud rock.

 

The problem is these venues are getting harder and harder to find. Even here in L.A. there are about 5-6 places that are like that, the other places are just a bunch of sports bar & grill type of place that thinks a {censored}ing pop cover band and an original heavy rock band should play at the same volume. But then again, if you say no to venues like that, you end up running out of places to play fast.

 

So I just work with the soundguy (it's usually NOT his fault, he's probably just following his boss' orders, so give the guy a break) and deal with it. If the sound guy is deliberately being a dick, that's a different story and I normally just turn it up and hope he will pull the plug after a few songs so I can go home, because sound guys with Napoleon complex are not my idea of fun to begin with. :lol:

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yeah it's one of the reasons why I don't use NMV amps or even MV amps that don't have a good MV taper or sound too thin at low volumes, I really don't want to get into this type of argument with sound guys. I also do have an attenuator, but I use that at home mostly, as a load box.


The Laney is one of the loudest amps I've ever played, but I can turn it way down and get a great tone out of it if needed. It won't be as good as it is when it's loud, but certainly good enough for the gig.


But I also prefer to play in places that are actually properly set up to host rock concerts and are ok with mic'ing loud guitar amps. My last show a few weeks ago was at one of these venues, I turned my amp to its optimal level, which is pretty {censored}ing devastating
:lol:
and the guy mic'd in and turned it further up in the FOH. Good sound guy, he got a mix that was really loud and really good. No one complained about it because it is a rock n roll venue and people are there to listen to loud rock.


The problem is these venues are getting harder and harder to find. Even here in L.A. there are about 5-6 places that are like that, the other places are just a bunch of sports bar & grill type of place that thinks a {censored}ing pop cover band and an original heavy rock band should play at the same volume. But then again, if you say no to venues like that, you end up running out of places to play fast.


So I just work with the soundguy (it's usually NOT his fault, he's probably just following his boss' orders, so give the guy a break) and deal with it. If the sound guy is deliberately being a dick, that's a different story and I normally just turn it up and hope he will pull the plug after a few songs so I can go home, because sound guys with Napoleon complex are not my idea of fun to begin with.
:lol:

 

Haha, these are all good points and definitely good advice. The thing is, my band plays punk shows usually, in halls/houses/venues where only the vocals are mic'd. Though every so often we play on real stages at real venues with real sound systems, and this is where the problems (sometimes) occur. Like you mentioned, sometimes you get the guy that lets you crank it and then turns you up further in the mains :lol:

 

Though I've comes up with a solution that has worked in the past, albeit is a bit of a pain: if they guy complains, I just turn my rig around so it faces backwards. Satisfies the guy, but now I have to listen to myself through monitors ({censored}).. oh the joys of playing in a loud band.

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