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OT: Some Kind of Gun Thread


FourT6and2

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I thought there was already a gun thread. But can't find it. So deal, brosephs! Looking for your opinions on these guns.

Trying to narrow my choices down for my first pistol. I've shot so many over the last few years and I go to the range all the time. But I don't own. I rent. Think it's time to pull the trigger on my first one (see what I did there).

I'm going with a .45 ACP. I just shoot the best with that caliber. It's not about stopping power to me. It's about what feels the best in my hands. 9mm is ok. .40 is too snappy and it's hard for me to control. .45 is perfect.

Went to the range today and shot the following:

FNH FNX
Glock 21
S&W M&P
Sig P220
HK USP
Springfield XDm

All guns were fired at 25 feet.

First up: S&W M&P 45
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I thought I'd like this one because one of the first handguns I ever shot was an M&P 9mm. And I remember liking it. But this is the first I've shot one in about two years. And I really disliked it. From my notes on the target, all I wrote was, "AWFUL." I should have written, "GOD AWFUL." Couldn't shoot accurately at all. Trigger felt numb. Zero feel for trigger reengagement. Shots were all over the place. I can cross this one off my list. One of the WORST triggers I've ever felt. Mostly because it's hinged in the middle for the trigger safety. Bad design.

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Glock 21

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This one surprised me just as much as the M&P. But for a different reason. I shot a few Glocks (9mm) a few years ago and remember not liking them at all. But this one felt really good. It was a 4th Gen version. Nothing stood out as being good nor bad about it. It was just an all around gun that worked. No frills. It didn't jump out at me as being "The One." But it shot and felt good.

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FNH FNX
Can't find a pic of an FNX. But the FNP is pretty much the same gun.

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Sweet Jesus! Awesome feeling gun. Didn't have to aim at all. Just point in the general direction and the bullets somehow find their way to the target. It's like that scene from The 5th Element where General Zorg or Borg or Florg fires at those aliens and the bullets curve in midair around them to hit another target. {censored}ing magic technology and magnets and {censored}. One of the best feeling guns I've shot besides a 1911 (and possibly the Sig P220, but we'll get to that). Stippling on the grip was uncomfortable and I cried like a pansie.

fnx_by_haftelm-d5mcqdw.jpg


Sig P220

Sig-Sauer-220R-45-BSS.jpg

Hells yeah. Look at that grouping. Just like the FNX, this thing shoots where you point it. Trigger is baller. Felt so good, very much like a 1911. Loading the magazine was painful, though. I cried some. Most expensive gun of the bunch, though. Kind of ugly. Lowest magazine capacity as well, at 8 rounds. All the others were upwards of 12 or 13 rounds.

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XDm 45

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Felt very much like the Glock. Shot well. But nothing stood out as being good nor bad. Comfortable and super easy to load.

xdm_by_haftelm-d5mcrp5.jpg

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HK USP 45

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I shot fairly well with this one. But the hump in the bottom of the trigger guard made it uncomfortable. Pair that with the trigger-guard mag release and I can probably cross it off my list. It also has no spur on the hammer, so you can't cock it without racking the slide. But it is still somewhat of a DA/SA in that you can shoot it with a full squeeze uncocked or rack the slide and shoot it like that. Felt pretty good in my hand, though besides the trigger issue. Shot a little to the right for some reason. Maybe the sights were off. Maybe the hump in the trigger guard was throwing me. Maybe I was anticipating. Who knows.

hk_usp_by_haftelm-d5mcrzy.jpg
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Quote Originally Posted by Zeppelin Rules

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No interest in a more traditional 1911 or some variant?

 

I love the 1911. But for my first gun that I'll be owning, I think I wan to go with something with a higher capacity and easier to maintain. I'll probably end up getting a 1911 at some point anyway. biggrin.gif
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The FN is awesome as is the USP and the XD.

However, for me, I'd rather have something like a Springfield 1911 Range Officer, especially if it's your first gun. I would recommend a striker fired gun for someone's first time. With the 1911 you can easily identify what condition it's in by the very obvious hammer and safety. They are rugged and aren't hard to clean at all. A great place to start.

ro1.jpg

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The M&P still has that old Sigma style trigger to it, it isn't a bad trigger but it definitely is different than any other gun out there. The first time I shot a Sigma (yes I'm old enough to have shot them when they came out decades ago) and more recently the M&P, I thought the guns were broken the triggers felt so bad/off/heavy... like a balky, rusty gate. Once that trigger was "learned", it isn't too bad but it definitely isn't a target gun's trigger. It is meant as a duty weapon and I accept it as that.

My P220ST in .45 is crazily accurate. DA or SA, the Sig trigger is just amazing for a stock pistol. I'd not hesitate taking any tight shot with that pistol, DA or SA. It wouldn't be my first choice, I mean my Nowlin 9x23mm 1911 prints silver dollar sized groups at 25 yards, but it cost me 4x as much and BETTER shoot better than I can!

Derek

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Right now I'm deciding for my first gun between a remington 870 or a mossberg 500...to be used for home defense. The GF likes the feel of the 870 better but we have only been able to hold tactical versions of the 500 so I'm not sure what the differences between the version of the 500 would be but I'm holding out for the persuader version.

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OP based on your descriptions and performance, I'd buy that SIG P220. Have a means to carry a spare mag or two. Even the best pistols aren't really intended for prolonged gunfights, right ? Use your 8+1, reload and GTFO and figure out why you stepped into a war and how to run like hell away. biggrin.gif Or at least how to get to where your long gun is.

My brother in law has ended up with a good company who wants him to move into armed security. It's going to be interesting to see how I can help him transition into that - he's got a whole lot of questions to be answered at this point. He's not some dope-with-a-coffee-cup type, but no Rambo either. I'm hoping they don't have stupid policies, but the company seems really smart about how they run things. idn_smilie.gif

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Quote Originally Posted by Kardula View Post
Right now I'm deciding for my first gun between a remington 870 or a mossberg 500...to be used for home defense. The GF likes the feel of the 870 better but we have only been able to hold tactical versions of the 500 so I'm not sure what the differences between the version of the 500 would be but I'm holding out for the persuader version.
Funny you should mention the Mossberg 500 Persuader tactical.

That's my only shotgun. It seems nice, but I have nothing to which I can compare it.icon_lol.gif

MB500-061409-1.jpg
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Quote Originally Posted by MattACaster View Post
The FN is awesome as is the USP and the XD.

However, for me, I'd rather have something like a Springfield 1911 Range Officer, especially if it's your first gun. I would recommend a striker fired gun for someone's first time. With the 1911 you can easily identify what condition it's in by the very obvious hammer and safety. They are rugged and aren't hard to clean at all. A great place to start.
Keep in mind I've been shooting for a number of years. But I've always just rented at the range. And I've taken a number of gun courses, NRA, safety, etc. So I feel I'm quite competent when it comes to gun safety and knowing to handle a firearm. Having a hammer-fired gun is great because yeah... you know very easily if it's cocked and there's added safety there. But I most likely will not be carrying. I don't have a CCW.

I watched some vids of how to strip/clean 1911s. And it's not rocket science. But it's definitely more complicated than a Glock or XD in that you have to use a "tool" to do it. I could be wrong, but I was also under the impression that maintaining a 1911 was more involved and that they are more finicky and prone to malfunction if everything isn't "just so." But, I could be mistaken.

In any event, I LOVE 1911s. And will most likely get one in the future.

Quote Originally Posted by Viesczy View Post
The M&P still has that old Sigma style trigger to it, it isn't a bad trigger but it definitely is different than any other gun out there. The first time I shot a Sigma (yes I'm old enough to have shot them when they came out decades ago) and more recently the M&P, I thought the guns were broken the triggers felt so bad/off/heavy... like a balky, rusty gate. Once that trigger was "learned", it isn't too bad but it definitely isn't a target gun's trigger. It is meant as a duty weapon and I accept it as that.
The trigger on the M&P didn't feel heavy or rough. To me it felt loose and squishy because it's hinged in the middle. It's not crisp enough for me. But I certainly understand it's philosophy of use in that it was designed as a service weapon.

Quote Originally Posted by midnightlaundry View Post
H&K's are nice looking guns, but way to expensive for me. Plus, they don't have the capacity of a Glock. Full frame, all metal guns are like have a brick strapped to your side. A little subcompact with an IWB holster is the ticket, but they do have more recoil because they're so light.
Yeah, I think the HK is off my list. But I love all-metal guns.

"The weight is a sign of reliability..." - Borris, from Snatch biggrin.gif

Quote Originally Posted by Reverse Entropy View Post
OP based on your descriptions and performance, I'd buy that SIG P220. Have a means to carry a spare mag or two. Even the best pistols aren't really intended for prolonged gunfights, right ? Use your 8+1, reload and GTFO and figure out why you stepped into a war and how to run like hell away. biggrin.gif Or at least how to get to where your long gun is.
lol, yeah the Sig is pretty freakin' sweet. Looking at my grouping right now and there's just a giant hole in the center of the target. icon_lol.gif I won't be carrying any time soon. And I do wish it had a higher capacity. But it's still on my list! If I could have any two guns, I think it'd be the Sig P220 and either the Glock or XDm.

Quote Originally Posted by Inspector 71 View Post
I rented some guns at a range in Colorado

I tried a Glock 22 .40, and a Springfield XD .45

I was shooting the glock like a champ. The XD didn't agree with me for some reason.
I can't shoot .40 at all. Too snappy. Bullets land all over the place. It's like I'm an evil henchman from a movie where none of 'em can hit the good guy.
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As far as the .45 ACP, I have always loved me some 1911. I felt like you did with the more expensive guns...the bullets just find their way to the target! My friend even picked up a a Rock River (i think that was the make) 1911 for $550, and there was no can if cola that would survive within a 50 yard circle.

I actually dig the Springfield XD. My cousin is selling one at an offer to good to refuse, but I'm a little tight on cash at the moment. This would be my second pick.

As far as the .40s go, I never really jived with them. The one exception is the Sig Sauer 226. It's a thing of beauty. I can hit cans at 75 yards (no joke). Maybe not consistently (one out of three shots), but i haven't fired any handgun that accurate. This, and it is by far the smoothest firing gun this side of a .22. Definitely check one out if you get the chance. At last research, the Secret Service was using these as their primary sidearm.

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Quote Originally Posted by Kardula View Post
Right now I'm deciding for my first gun between a remington 870 or a mossberg 500...to be used for home defense. The GF likes the feel of the 870 better but we have only been able to hold tactical versions of the 500 so I'm not sure what the differences between the version of the 500 would be but I'm holding out for the persuader version.
I have had many Mossberg shotguns over the years including a bolt action 410 ga. I had the Mossbergs simply because they were cheaper. If I had it to do over again, I'd spend the extra cash and get the Remingtons. To me they just seem like they're built better. Although I have dropped my Mossbergs in the feild when hunting, and had it cycle with crap in the receiver so maube they're like the AK47 of shotgunsidn_smilie.gif I cannot attest as to whether or not a Remington will or wont because the only Remingtons I have shot belonged to someone else and we were just shooting for the hell of breaking some clays not hunting.

Quote Originally Posted by Cougar Hunter View Post
Funny you should mention the Mossberg 500 Persuader tactical.

That's my only shotgun. It seems nice, but I have nothing to which I can compare it.icon_lol.gif

MB500-061409-1.jpg
That is a nice looking Mossberg. One thing aboutthe Mossberg is that they are a very simple gun, so ther's not much to them to fail. I have never had to clean a Remington so I don't know if they are simple as well. I know that with the steel receivers they are heavier than the Mossbergs, and seem not to rattle as much when you shake'emicon_lol.gifWhich to me translates to better build tolerances and then to better quality. Then again I could be all wet with that assumption too. I've always wanted a stainless tactical so I could carry it in a boat and not hve to worry about it rusting as fast as a blued barrel.
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yeah, reading reviews and stuff it's gonna be a tough choice, especially since I'm a know-nothing about guns. Been asking around and the general consensus seems to be that the remington may be a little better build quality but there's 3 main issues with it. The plate where you feed the shells can cause things to get stuck, the safety is in an awkward place compared to the mossberg and the ejector is riveted to the side instead of screwed so if it ever breaks it will need to be sent back to the rem factory.

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Personally i think the difference between mossburg and remington comes down to a feel thing. Both are great shotguns, some people like the safety style on the mossburg(for the record im not one of them) as it can be used right or left handed, others dont like the fact that mossburg uses plastic for their triggerguards.

Also take a look at the IAC Hawk 982, its a copy of the 870 with ghost ring sights, 18inch barrel and parkerized finish. Big 5 usually has them and on a whim i picked one up for $129 on sale. The thing is insanely accurate with slugs, like more accurate than a smooth bore should ever be and the Centurion Multi Defence load( a big .65 ball with 6 #1 buck) groups so well that it might as well be a slug.

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Quote Originally Posted by Zeppelin Rules View Post
94cd3d86994311e090c712313b10052d_small

If it doesn't work you can always hit him with it
Such a good movie.

Quote Originally Posted by Mesa4x12er2 View Post
Based on your performance and my personal preferences Sig or FNH.
I might have to get three guns: Sig P220, 1911, and a Glock or XDm. {censored} it. Make it four guns. I'll get 'em all!!!!!
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