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Michigan becomes another Right to Work state :-)


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Score!

May the jobs be with youthumb.gif

http://reason.com/blog/2012/12/06/d-...ork-in-mi-ver2




D-Day for Right-to-Work in Michigan

Shikha Dalmia|Dec. 6, 2012 9:12 am



Today might be D-day for the Right-to-Work battle in Michigan. Emboldened by the defeat of the union-backed Protect Our Jobs constitutional initiative that would have forever banned Michigan from going RTW, Michigan Republicans

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Part of me worries that this will be used to justify lower wages and general {censored}ing employees.
The rest of me knows how the big unions systematically gutted the Michigan economy for 40 years and left an empty shell.

TL/DR: I'm a bit conflicted on this one.

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Quote Originally Posted by Sixtonoize View Post
Part of me worries that this will be used to justify lower wages and general {censored}ing employees.
The rest of me knows how the big unions systematically gutted the Michigan economy for 40 years and left an empty shell.

TL/DR: I'm a bit conflicted on this one.

The whole point of this bill is to ALLOW people to take lower wages.

Some people can't see the big picture.
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Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Picklebottom View Post
using that logic union leaders go home with multi million dollar salaries while their respective industry fails.
You're gonna have to walk me through that, I don't see the connection with what I said.

I didn't say there wasn't any abuse of the union system, it's rampant. But the union ideal is a good and necessary one. They just got too powerful and "started drinking their own whiskey". Now the pendelum is swinging back, hard. It needs to swing back but it always swings too far.
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Quote Originally Posted by Johnny'sGotTheBlues View Post
You're gonna have to walk me through that, I don't see the connection with what I said.

I didn't say there wasn't any abuse of the union system, it's rampant. But the union ideal is a good and necessary one. They just got too powerful and "started drinking their own whiskey". Now the pendelum is swinging back, hard. It needs to swing back but it always swings too far.
What special privileges would you like unions to have?
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Quote Originally Posted by Sixtonoize View Post
Part of me worries that this will be used to justify lower wages and general {censored}ing employees.
The rest of me knows how the big unions systematically gutted the Michigan economy for 40 years and left an empty shell.

TL/DR: I'm a bit conflicted on this one.
Why would you think this LOL It's like meatballs smile.gif
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Quote Originally Posted by Sixtonoize View Post
Part of me worries that this will be used to justify lower wages and general {censored}ing employees.
The rest of me knows how the big unions systematically gutted the Michigan economy for 40 years and left an empty shell.

TL/DR: I'm a bit conflicted on this one.
My feelings as well pretty much.
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Quote Originally Posted by Rear Naked View Post
What special privileges would you like unions to have?
Special? I guess "none".

What powers should unions have in general? Well, that would take a book long answer I'm not qualified to write.

I'm in favor of the idea of unions in theory. In practise, well, I'm not in love with them. But unskilled labor needs some kind of protection. I can't think of any alternative that would be better than unions.

Just for the record, other than some summer laborer jobs I've had I've never been in a union.
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Unions are just another symptom of our habits and behaviors. It's no use defending or attacking them. (even though my emotional side hates the unions.)

The crescendo culminates in the reckoning day of our national debt exploding in our faces.

Let's just drive toward the edge of fiscal insanity and disaster and get it over with.

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Quote Originally Posted by Cougar Hunter View Post
Unions are just another symptom of our habits and behaviors. It's no use defending or attacking them. (even though my emotional side hates the unions.)

The crescendo culminates in the reckoning day of our national debt exploding in our faces.

Let's just drive toward the edge of fiscal insanity and disaster and get it over with.
You should appreciate this.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tu...mbers-on-paper
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The unions spent decades of blood, sweat and tears to make the gains to advance the quality of life, pay and work conditions for the average american worker. The Koch brothers and their money have been able to erase many of these gains in a few simple years, as Americans sit back and watch their power to negotiate slip away. Apathy at the voting booth is eroding worker's rights as we sit idly by and watch it happen. In a few more decades it will take another generation willing to fight, years to regain the loses fought so hard for and so easily given up. I will remind you that American production and profits are at an all-time high. People are working longer hours for less pay, and the Republican establishments are taking rights away, by instilling a belief that America is faltering at the hands of the middle class and union members. No doubt, Michigan's economy is faltering as foreign companies choose to set up shop where they can pay less. Lower wages are never beneficial to anyone but shareholders and top executives. I submit that we have an artificially created seller's market for employment, because companies are not hiring or even laying off in the face of record profits. This is turn is perpetuating a recession to which companies can point to, to continue their behavior. I have a grand idea: hire, raise wages and benefits and let's see if the economy turns around.

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When there is a need to negotiate between an employer and a large number of workers you need unions.
Only way to do it.
Curious to see how much of the middle class will be left in Michigan in a few years.
Funny that is the states, to raise the income tax of people who make more than 250,000.00 $ a year is a scandal but to lower the salaries of the middle class is progress.
This country is bound to failure.

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Chrysler just had to rehire 13 union workers fired a couple years ago for getting caught on tape drinking 40's and smoking pot at lunch for 10 days in a row by a news reporter. Union arbitration.

Here in Northern Ohio, a worker was killed at the GM plant in June after getting crushed by a crane operators mistake. As far as I know, the operator was never tested for drugs or booze because he immediately said he had a problem and needed rehab. He is now back to work. Union protection.

I have had family members that have worked at Ford plants where it is very common to drink all day at work. They started to frown upon that so bars opened up directly outside the plant gates. Those bars are packed at every lunch break and shift change. The workers leave the bar and go directly back to work. Union again.

Just saying.

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Chrysler just had to rehire 13 union workers fired a couple years ago for getting caught on tape drinking 40's and smoking pot at lunch for 10 days in a row by a news reporter. Union arbitration.

Here in Northern Ohio, a worker was killed at the GM plant in June after getting crushed by a crane operators mistake. As far as I know, the operator was never tested for drugs or booze because he immediately said he had a problem and needed rehab. He is now back to work. Union protection.

I have had family members that have worked at Ford plants where it is very common to drink all day at work. They started to frown upon that so bars opened up directly outside the plant gates. Those bars are packed at every lunch break and shift change. The workers leave the bar and go directly back to work. Union again.

Just saying.

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Unions aren't perfect, but what's your alternative? Whether you want to admit it or not, unions have been essential in creating a middle class in America. Right to work for less is an explicit effort to reverse that. The most vocal supporters of RTW are the richest peeps in the USA, not the poorest. Regardless, when things get desperate enough (such as the 30s) people will begin to organize in spite the laws. It's already happening to WalMart.

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The unions spent decades of blood, sweat and tears to make the gains to advance the quality of life, pay and work conditions for the average american worker. The Koch brothers and their money have been able to erase many of these gains in a few simple years, as Americans sit back and watch their power to negotiate slip away. Apathy at the voting booth is eroding worker's rights as we sit idly by and watch it happen. In a few more decades it will take another generation willing to fight, years to regain the loses fought so hard for and so easily given up. I will remind you that American production and profits are at an all-time high. People are working longer hours for less pay, and the Republican establishments are taking rights away, by instilling a belief that America is faltering at the hands of the middle class and union members. No doubt, Michigan's economy is faltering as foreign companies choose to set up shop where they can pay less. Lower wages are never beneficial to anyone but shareholders and top executives. I submit that we have an artificially created seller's market for employment, because companies are not hiring or even laying off in the face of record profits. This is turn is perpetuating a recession to which companies can point to, to continue their behavior.
I have a grand idea: hire, raise wages and benefits and let's see if the economy turns around.

 

 

Right, just {censored}ing produce stuff and buyers will emerge. Just like the former Soviet Union did!

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Part of me worries that this will be used to justify lower wages and general {censored}ing employees.

The rest of me knows how the big unions systematically gutted the Michigan economy for 40 years and left an empty shell.


TL/DR: I'm a bit conflicted on this one.

 

truth. i looked into it, i would make $5,000 less a year if i lived in a right to work state doing the same job.

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You guys notice that they lt a special provision in exempting the police and fire unions?

 

I guess there are some socialist entities that even the Koch brothers and the like don't want to change. I wonder if it's because the police and fire departments aren't private businesses, and they therefore they can't make any money off of them, so they left them alone.

 

Why not include fire and police officers? {censored}, if the big bad unions are ruining our country, shouldn't s socialist groups like police and fire be the first ones to be de-unionized?

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Right, just {censored}ing produce stuff and buyers will emerge. Just like the former Soviet Union did!

 

 

Ever thought that maybe the woes of the economy here aren't the fault of the unions, but poor management practices? I seem to recall our finest on Wall St and Bay St making some pretty {censored}ty decisions four years ago leading to this mess, not the middle class workers. Hostess is a great example of what should be a very profitable business being tanked by idiot management choices. As for Michigan, the line workers didn't design the {censored}ty cars that can't compete against the Asian models, they just follow instructions. I think an unwillingness to innovate because things had been so good for so long without any challenge to change and innovate (along with a lack of investment) has caused the market to stagnate. I think more companies need to look at bringing a sense of collaboration to their enterprises to incite more innovation, seeing as how the top-down model is causing less skilled and dedicated workers (and will ironically cause a lack of efficiency and innovation).

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