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A question of free will

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  • No no. People absolutely choose to do it in the first place. THAT's almost proof of free will - i mean - you can choose NOT to do it - but you chose to start smoking, or drinking, or shooting up etc etc.



    BUT - once addicted - i think free will takes a back seat because you can CHOOSE to quit - but the actual process of quitting can prove VERY difficult - and it doesnt rely on simply making a choice.









    Quote Originally Posted by knucklefux
    View Post

    so, you're saying that going through the physical act of putting a foreign substance into your body doesn't involve choice?











    there's choice all the way...first, you have to decide that you need to get some. then you have to decide to get some. then you decide that you need to use some, but you have to decide how much. if there's paraphernalia required, you have to decide to get that.



    quite simply, your body doesn't move until your brain makes the choice to do so. if there were actually free will, there wouldn't be addiction because you could choose to NOT engage in any of the behaviors required to acquire and ingest a substance.



    the alternative view is free will with limitations, but that isn't really free will...if you had free will, you could choose for it to exceed those limitations. and on and on.




    Life is ours. We live it our way.







    Originally Posted by Rada


    ... I mean, I wouldn't mind getting on all fours every once in a while if it meant my tuition and rent was taken care of

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    • Put simply - you arent addicted to something before you start taking it.



      IE - back in the day - ppl didnt know smoking was addictive.

      Once hooked - choice is (somewhat) removed from the equation.



      Free will to start - not always to stop.
      Life is ours. We live it our way.







      Originally Posted by Rada


      ... I mean, I wouldn't mind getting on all fours every once in a while if it meant my tuition and rent was taken care of

      Comment


      • Another example - morphine addicitons from ppl who have undergone surgery.

        They get addicted to morphine through no choice they have made.
        Life is ours. We live it our way.







        Originally Posted by Rada


        ... I mean, I wouldn't mind getting on all fours every once in a while if it meant my tuition and rent was taken care of

        Comment


        • If I hold a gun to someone's head and force them to do 20 push ups have they done these push ups under their own free will?
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          Originally Posted by nedezero


          You realize under Sharia law, she'll be required to get a circumcision.

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          • Quote Originally Posted by TurboRotary13b
            View Post

            If I hold a gun to someone's head and force them to do 20 push ups have they done these push ups under their own free will?




            It depends how you define free will.



            Some define it as the ability to make decisions free from constraints. Some define those constraints as things such as imprisonment or fear of death etc.

            others define it as freedom from fear of persecution or punishment.
            Life is ours. We live it our way.







            Originally Posted by Rada


            ... I mean, I wouldn't mind getting on all fours every once in a while if it meant my tuition and rent was taken care of

            Comment








            • Quote Originally Posted by Hegmatronicon
              View Post

              Another example - morphine addicitons from ppl who have undergone surgery.

              They get addicted to morphine through no choice they have made.




              they also choose not to take the steps necessary to recover (treatment, etc). you have to choose to continue using a substance, end of story.



              once again: if there were free will, there wouldn't be addiction. if you can refute that, or explain why it is that you feel that free will gets a pass in the case of addiction, i'm all ears.
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              • Quote Originally Posted by knucklefux
                View Post

                they also choose not to take the steps necessary to recover (treatment, etc). you have to choose to continue using a substance, end of story.






                Never been close to someone who's addicted to something (not cigs) i assume?

                In a black and White universe - i guess that's true.

                But there are many other factors such as what the actual drug does to your perception of reality in general etc
                Life is ours. We live it our way.







                Originally Posted by Rada


                ... I mean, I wouldn't mind getting on all fours every once in a while if it meant my tuition and rent was taken care of

                Comment


                • Ok lets break this down.. What is will? It is a desire right? One desire is equal to another as we can choose to act on it or ignore it.. What we cannot control is the action of desire itself... In other words we cannot control our will. It is natural to us. So while we can decide how the will manifests itself once it arrives the wills arrival is uncontrollable. If you cant even control the arrival of will you don't have free will because once the will is there you are forced into a decision.
                  HCAF Public Enemy #1
                  VHT Pittbull CLX
                  VHT Fat Bottom 4x12
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                  Originally Posted by nedezero


                  You realize under Sharia law, she'll be required to get a circumcision.

                  Comment


                  • If we look at other animals (because we ARE animals, and there is still some degree of instinct left in our brains, no matter how much we would like to think otherwise), they dont really make decisions...they just DO things based on instinct. They do not really have free will. We have the ability to use logic and reason and to go against our instincts. If we were simply instinctual beings, yes, free will is only an idea that isnt really anything. However, since we do have the ability to go against instinct, I think that means we have the ability to make decisions based on things that may not necessarily be the best or most rewarding, chemically speaking. To me, that suggests free will.
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                    • So if we don't have free will and this is all predetermined, having this knowledge won't change anything.



                      If not, this is pointless banter on a message board.



                      It's not a power to harness either way.

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                      • In before tl/dr by Draelyc
                        If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face...forever

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                        • In before tl/dr by Draelyc
                          If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face...forever

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                          • everything in life is black or white; no grey.





                            - Adam

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                            • Quote Originally Posted by Hegmatronicon
                              View Post

                              Never been close to someone who's addicted to something (not cigs) i assume?

                              In a black and White universe - i guess that's true.

                              But there are many other factors such as what the actual drug does to your perception of reality in general etc




                              yes, i have.



                              "many other factors" is a cop out for the addict, excusing their behavior. the bottom line is that they CHOOSE to continue to use just as they do not choose to stop.



                              you can't have it both ways...if the addict makes a choice to get help, they must also make a choice NOT to.









                              Quote Originally Posted by Ron Burgandy
                              View Post

                              So if we don't have free will and this is all predetermined, having this knowledge won't change anything.



                              If not, this is pointless banter on a message board.



                              It's not a power to harness either way.




                              it's not necessarily an issue of something being predetermined, as that implies that there is a "determiner". this whole thing is really all about truth, and how little control we actually have.



                              if truth and the knowledge that control is an illusion aren't powers to harness, name some for me.
                              got a question about TITAN amps? ask me
                              here

                              my website

                              TITAN AMPS on myspace


                              My band:Last Comes Gunfire

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                              • I stopped smoking after 17 years. I have no desire to restart as they're nasty to me. I feel I broke the addiction. I have no cravings or really any memory of what it was like.

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