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A question of free will

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  • #76






    Quote Originally Posted by guitarcapo
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    Your environment influences the decision making process...and since what you encounter is random, your decision making process can not be perfectly predictable and predetermined.




    Many aspects of our psychology are perfectly predictable though. Anyone who delves into the psychological fields of study can attest to this.. I've read a good bit on Evolutionary Psychology and it has changed my perspective on some ****************. It's hard for us to see, let alone begin to question, what is at our core.... That is what is the most natural, of anything, to us. Look at how many thousands of years man has existed and even now we barely began to find the mere QUESTIONS we must ask to understand these core elements that comprise the majority of who and what we are. It is true that environment influences our decision making process but even the environment operates within a framework.. We also operate within this same framework and as long as we do the framework determines the limitations of our will... Therefore we still only have conditional free will.
    HCAF Public Enemy #1
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    Originally Posted by nedezero


    You realize under Sharia law, she'll be required to get a circumcision.

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    • #77






      Quote Originally Posted by guitarcapo
      View Post

      Your environment influences the decision making process...and since what you encounter is random, your decision making process can not be perfectly predictable and predetermined.




      Many aspects of our psychology are perfectly predictable though. Anyone who delves into the psychological fields of study can attest to this.. I've read a good bit on Evolutionary Psychology and it has changed my perspective on some ****************. It's hard for us to see, let alone begin to question, what is at our core.... That is what is the most natural, of anything, to us. Look at how many thousands of years man has existed and even now we barely began to find the mere QUESTIONS we must ask to understand these core elements that comprise the majority of who and what we are. It is true that environment influences our decision making process but even the environment operates within a framework.. We also operate within this same framework and as long as we do the framework determines the limitations of our will... Therefore we still only have conditional free will.
      HCAF Public Enemy #1
      VHT Pittbull CLX
      VHT Fat Bottom 4x12
      Jackson Soloist SL2H
      Jackson DKMG EMG 81/85 18v







      Originally Posted by nedezero


      You realize under Sharia law, she'll be required to get a circumcision.

      Comment


      • #78
        With smoking - it's not a "choice". It's a chemical addiction.

        You WANT to quit - but an addiction (chemical) is a tough thing to break.
        Life is ours. We live it our way.







        Originally Posted by Rada


        ... I mean, I wouldn't mind getting on all fours every once in a while if it meant my tuition and rent was taken care of

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        • #79
          With smoking - it's not a "choice". It's a chemical addiction.

          You WANT to quit - but an addiction (chemical) is a tough thing to break.
          Life is ours. We live it our way.







          Originally Posted by Rada


          ... I mean, I wouldn't mind getting on all fours every once in a while if it meant my tuition and rent was taken care of

          Comment


          • #80






            Quote Originally Posted by knucklefux
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            it's not even a matter of physics. you can't control your own thoughts, can't stop an urge or craving, can't fully control your body.



            your brain chemistry is what it is, and you do what you do because of it.



            a fine example is someone who smokes, but can't quit no matter how badly they want to or how much they hate it (these people do exist, i suspect there are some among us)...or any other addict, really. they continue a behavior in spite of the negative consequences. how could a being with free will choose to do something that can cause them so much discomfort or even death? simple, remove the free will and the question needs not be asked.



            as i said earlier, i find there to be similarities between the adherence to free will and the adherence to religion...in some ways, xian religion hinges on free will. without it, the whole house of cards falls down. i mention this because i think trying to have a conversation about the existence of free will is about as productive as an athiest and a priest discussing the finer points of faith.




            I think that the concept of free will is comforting to people because it allows them to believe that they are the masters of themselves. It grants an element of control that people NATURALLY (see what I did there?) crave. This is why this concept is frequently a focus point of religion... as is the majority of explicitly human psychological conditions.
            HCAF Public Enemy #1
            VHT Pittbull CLX
            VHT Fat Bottom 4x12
            Jackson Soloist SL2H
            Jackson DKMG EMG 81/85 18v







            Originally Posted by nedezero


            You realize under Sharia law, she'll be required to get a circumcision.

            Comment


            • #81






              Quote Originally Posted by Hegmatronicon
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              With smoking - it's not a "choice". It's a chemical addiction.

              You WANT to quit - but an addiction (chemical) is a tough thing to break.




              If you had absolute free will there would be no such thing as addiction.
              HCAF Public Enemy #1
              VHT Pittbull CLX
              VHT Fat Bottom 4x12
              Jackson Soloist SL2H
              Jackson DKMG EMG 81/85 18v







              Originally Posted by nedezero


              You realize under Sharia law, she'll be required to get a circumcision.

              Comment


              • #82






                Quote Originally Posted by guitarcapo
                View Post

                Your environment influences the decision making process...and since what you encounter is random, your decision making process can not be perfectly predictable and predetermined.




                Who says its random?
                If you think this forum sucks visit here:http://www.guitarampboard.com/index.php started by user guitarbilly74

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                • #83






                  Quote Originally Posted by Hegmatronicon
                  View Post

                  With smoking - it's not a "choice". It's a chemical addiction.

                  You WANT to quit - but an addiction (chemical) is a tough thing to break.




                  if there is free will, this is bull****************.



                  you have to choose to put the substance in your body-EVERY TIME. one could just as easily choose the alternative if there were free will.



                  since there is, as you stated, a chemical interaction that's involved, you've basically agreed with me by saying that chemicals can override choice.
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                  • #84






                    Quote Originally Posted by TurboRotary13b
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                    I think that the concept of free will is comforting to people because it allows them to believe that they are the masters of themselves. It grants an element of control that people NATURALLY (see what I did there?) crave. This is why this concept is frequently a focus point of religion... as is the majority of explicitly human psychological conditions.




                    i see free will as a necessity for religion, at least for xian religion (in the event that there's a religion of which i am unaware that doesn't require free will in order to exist).



                    here's why: if you have no free will, it would be pretty ****************ed up for some folks to go to heaven while others go to hell since no one chose to be who they were or do what they did. without the threat of damnation or the promise of paradise, there's no need for the religion at all...it serves no purpose. so, in order for there to be a xian religion, there MUST be free will.
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                    • #85






                      Quote Originally Posted by TurboRotary13b
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                      If you had absolute free will there would be no such thing as addiction.




                      An addiction is a predisposition to exhibit a certain behavior, but it isn't forced. One can still overcome it using free will.



                      For example, when we are hungry, our mind forces us to crave food, so in a sense, we are addicted to eating. However many people can overcome it in the form of fasting.

                      In other words, if you cant oivercome an addiction, its not because you lack free will, its just that your free will isnt strong enough.
                      If you think this forum sucks visit here:http://www.guitarampboard.com/index.php started by user guitarbilly74

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                      • #86






                        Quote Originally Posted by Nick H
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                        An addiction is a predisposition to exhibit a certain behavior, but it isn't forced. One can still overcome it using free will.



                        For example, when we are hungry, our mind forces us to crave food, so in a sense, we are addicted to eating. However many people can overcome it in the form of fasting.

                        In other words, if you cant oivercome an addiction, its not because you lack free will, its just that your free will isnt strong enough.




                        shut the **************** up donnie, you're out of your element.



                        despite what that douche from passages at malibu tells you an addict can never NOT be an addict. period.



                        an addict CAN stop using, but s/he will always be an addict.
                        got a question about TITAN amps? ask me
                        here

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                        • #87






                          Quote Originally Posted by knucklefux
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                          i see free will as a necessity for religion, at least for xian religion (in the event that there's a religion of which i am unaware that doesn't require free will in order to exist).



                          here's why: if you have no free will, it would be pretty ****************ed up for some folks to go to heaven while others go to hell since no one chose to be who they were or do what they did. without the threat of damnation or the promise of paradise, there's no need for the religion at all...it serves no purpose. so, in order for there to be a xian religion, there MUST be free will.




                          Its called predistination my friend. I wont say I believe in it, but many christians, jews, etc. teach it.

                          I follow the chriustian faith, because I think it is the right way to go, and predictibly so. Am I predistined to go to heaven or hell? Ill find out sooner or later.
                          If you think this forum sucks visit here:http://www.guitarampboard.com/index.php started by user guitarbilly74

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                          • #88






                            Quote Originally Posted by Nick H
                            View Post

                            Its called predistination my friend. I wont say I believe in it, but many christians, jews, etc. teach it.

                            I follow the chriustian faith, because I think it is the right way to go, and predictibly so. Am I predistined to go to heaven or hell? Ill find out sooner or later.




                            do you think you just told me something that i didn't already know?



                            calvinism, son.
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                            here

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                            • #89
                              No. A CHEMICAL addiciton is just that. Chemical.

                              It's not a choice to be addicted.

                              Yes - it can be overcome by making the choice to overcome it. But it's not like you just up and decide to beat it and thats that.

                              It's VERY tough.

                              PS - if it's bad enough - choosing to beat it by stopping whatever it is you are taking - can kill you.

                              Is that free will?
                              Life is ours. We live it our way.







                              Originally Posted by Rada


                              ... I mean, I wouldn't mind getting on all fours every once in a while if it meant my tuition and rent was taken care of

                              Comment


                              • #90






                                Quote Originally Posted by knucklefux
                                View Post

                                shut the **************** up donnie, you're out of your element.



                                despite what that douche from passages at malibu tells you an addict can never NOT be an addict. period.



                                an addict CAN stop using, but s/he will always be an addict.




                                lulz

                                read your post several times, still cant make sense of it.
                                If you think this forum sucks visit here:http://www.guitarampboard.com/index.php started by user guitarbilly74

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