Jump to content

Jet City JCA50H or Blackstar HT20H?


GRIMESPACE

Recommended Posts

  • Members

Hi all:

 

New to posting on this forum, but I've been reading quite a bit lately. Really appreciate the expertise, and hoping some of ya'll might be willing to help me out with a decision.

 

I had been setting money aside for a new tube amp (been using a Line6 Flextone III for the last couple years) since I first found out about the new Jet City JCA22H back in Jan/Feb. Had the cash by May, but got tired of waiting at the end of June. Decided to go $100 more for the JCA50H, and placed my order on 6/21 - seller stated (as with most sites) should ship around 6/28. No soap.

 

This past weekend, I decided to see what else $499 would buy, and wound up purchasing a Blackstar HT20H. Sounded amazing in the store, and really had myself convinced it'd be a perfect alternative. Unfortunately, over the past few days and spending a couple of hours cranking it in my brother's studio, I'm not so sure.

 

I like the gain capability of the Blackstar, but it gets saturated really quick. Finding low-gain tones that match up well to my SG are hard to find with it seeming to hit the wall well before the noon position. At lower volumes the clean channel is really nice, but it got into crunch category whenever I tried to get to louder levels in the studio. The amp, overall, seems really dark, but I do like the smoothness.

 

I want something that can do old-school metal (Sabbath, Priest, Maiden) gain-wise, but still have plenty of usable lower-gain to do crunch, blues-rock, hard rock, etc (Led Zep, ZZ Top, AC/DC). I play some cleans, but it's not the priority. Not looking to heavily scoop mids - want something that can punch through a jam with another guitar, drummer, and bass. I'm playing an SG standard with a pretty hot humbucker in the bridge and a Carvin strat-type with HSS.

 

I have a couple of speakers (EV-12L and Mesa/Celestion Black Shadow) from a Boogie cab I sold a few years back, and am planning to build a 2x12 based of the Thiele design to go with the new head. It'd be nice to hear what anyone thinks of this as a match.

 

So, with all that being said (sorry it's so long-winded), do any of you have an opinion you'd be willing to share? Both of these heads are the same price, and I can still return the Blackstar. I'm guessing that the Jet City's additional headroom will help with the cleans, but I have next to no experience with the controllability of the gain on the OD channel. I really like the support out there for the Jet City line - especially the potential mod-ability of the all-tube design versus Blackstar being a hybrid.

 

Thanks in advance!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

JCA = Classic rock plus boosted = old school metal. I will add its very bright. Not really any super cleans though, roll back the volume and you can get to near break up.

 

Blackstar = great cleans and great modern tones, can do hard rock but the JCA will do that better. More versatile.

 

Hope that helps. I went for the JCA as it was cheaper (I went 20w) but I was tempted with both. If I had the cash I would go for the 40w Blackstar combo as more options.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

That definitely helps to confirm my instinct that the JCA is probably more what I'm looking for. I did forget to include - I've read about the concerns over the effects loop on the JCA. I've got an old Quadraverb. Anyone know how well that works?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

That definitely helps to confirm my instinct that the JCA is probably more what I'm looking for. I did forget to include - I've read about the concerns over the effects loop on the JCA. I've got an old Quadraverb. Anyone know how well that works?

 

 

The Quadraverb will work perfectly with the Jet City loop. You just have to raise the internal patch volume a little higher than you normally would.

 

The smaller Alesis units, (Nanoverb and Picoverb) don't work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Hi all:


New to posting on this forum, but I've been reading quite a bit lately. Really appreciate the expertise, and hoping some of ya'll might be willing to help me out with a decision.


I had been setting money aside for a new tube amp (been using a Line6 Flextone III for the last couple years) since I first found out about the new Jet City JCA22H back in Jan/Feb. Had the cash by May, but got tired of waiting at the end of June. Decided to go $100 more for the JCA50H, and placed my order on 6/21 - seller stated (as with most sites) should ship around 6/28. No soap.


This past weekend, I decided to see what else $499 would buy, and wound up purchasing a Blackstar HT50H. Sounded amazing in the store, and really had myself convinced it'd be a perfect alternative. Unfortunately, over the past few days and spending a couple of hours cranking it in my brother's studio, I'm not so sure.


I like the gain capability of the Blackstar, but it gets saturated really quick. Finding low-gain tones that match up well to my SG are hard to find with it seeming to hit the wall well before the noon position. At lower volumes the clean channel is really nice, but it got into crunch category whenever I tried to get to louder levels in the studio. The amp, overall, seems really dark, but I do like the smoothness.


I want something that can do old-school metal (Sabbath, Priest, Maiden) gain-wise, but still have plenty of usable lower-gain to do crunch, blues-rock, hard rock, etc (Led Zep, ZZ Top, AC/DC). I play some cleans, but it's not the priority. Not looking to heavily scoop mids - want something that can punch through a jam with another guitar, drummer, and bass. I'm playing an SG standard with a pretty hot humbucker in the bridge and a Carvin strat-type with HSS.


I have a couple of speakers (EV-12L and Mesa/Celestion Black Shadow) from a Boogie cab I sold a few years back, and am planning to build a 2x12 based of the Thiele design to go with the new head. It'd be nice to hear what anyone thinks of this as a match.


So, with all that being said (sorry it's so long-winded), do any of you have an opinion you'd be willing to share? Both of these heads are the same price, and I can still return the Blackstar. I'm guessing that the Jet City's additional headroom will help with the cleans, but I have next to no experience with the controllability of the gain on the OD channel. I really like the support out there for the Jet City line - especially the potential mod-ability of the all-tube design versus Blackstar being a hybrid.


Thanks in advance!

 

 

The BlackStar is not a hybrid, it's an all-tube amp with diodes in the preamp section. That's not the same thing as a hybrid amp and several great amps use that type of design, including my Marshall 2210, which is a very sought-after amp.

 

Having said that, I do think the BlackStar HT is very modern sounding and kinda harsh for hard rock tones. I think it will your needs much better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

The BlackStar is not a hybrid, it's an all-tube amp with diodes in the preamp section. That's not the same thing as a hybrid amp and several great amps use that type of design, including my Marshall 2210, which is a very sought-after amp.


Having said that, I do think the BlackStar HT is very modern sounding and kinda harsh for hard rock tones. I think it will your needs much better.

 

 

as much as I can get good lower gain tones out of my Blackstar ht 100 I do think the jet city is definitely more of a rockclassic metal amp. With the 100 you can crank up the clean channel and get some nice rock tones but then you don't have your clean anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Wait a bit longer for the JCA22H to go on sale. The amp is SERIOUSLY impressing me. It's going to have a $400 price tag too.

 

anything from low gain blues to classic rock up to the 80's metal and 90's metallica and what not, it can pull it off.

 

When they sent it to me to try out, I honestly wasn't expecting it to be nearly this good. I was expecting like a 20H with a little more gain but this thing is seriously good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The Quadraverb will work perfectly with the Jet City loop. You just have to raise the internal patch volume a little higher than you normally would.


The smaller Alesis units, (Nanoverb and Picoverb) don't work.

 

Glad to find someone else with ancient gear :) Thanks for the reply!

 

I'm pretty sure I've read about other stuff you're using. How does the old Quadraverb measure up to today's technology?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The BlackStar is not a hybrid, it's an all-tube amp with diodes in the preamp section. That's not the same thing as a hybrid amp and several great amps use that type of design, including my Marshall 2210, which is a very sought-after amp.


Having said that, I do think the BlackStar HT is very modern sounding and kinda harsh for hard rock tones. I think it will your needs much better.

 

If I'm wrong, please forgive my assumption - I could have sworn that I saw a schematic someone had started working on that documented at least the first preamp stage(s), which included FETs used in conjunction with the gain controls. I'm no tube expert, but what I do know leads me to question how they're able to ramp up so much gain with just two tubes (and wouldn't one of those be a phase inverter?). Also simple clipping diodes don't readily lend themselves to smooth clipping like that amp seems to be about. Again - not arguing at all - just interesting to the techie in me ;)

 

If I'm reading you right, it sounds like you'd agree that the JCA is more old-school variety, while the Blackstar is more of the modern vibe. Thanks for helping me out - I've really enjoyed reading your prior commentaries about how much you like the JCA50s. :thu:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Wait a bit longer for the JCA22H to go on sale. The amp is SERIOUSLY impressing me. It's going to have a $400 price tag too.


anything from low gain blues to classic rock up to the 80's metal and 90's metallica and what not, it can pull it off.


When they sent it to me to try out, I honestly wasn't expecting it to be nearly this good. I was expecting like a 20H with a little more gain but this thing is seriously good.

 

This is NOT what I wanted to hear ;) you're killing me, dude...

 

Not to waste everyone's time retelling my tale - I've been on that road since Jan/Feb, and I've really just about had it with holding my breath with no clear end in sight.

 

Since you're the one with the experience, can you tell me - is the 22 the same as the 50/100 in terms of preamp gain and basic tone structure, with the primary difference being the power tubes (EL84s vs 6L6s)? Besides differences in headroom, which lead me to believe that the 50 would be more capable of cleaner gain at higher perceived volumes, is there a very real difference in smoothness, tone, etc.? Knowing that modern metal / Broots (whatever that is :lol:) and the heavily agressive stuff is not what I'm looking to do, would you really recommend I go full circle to the 22?

 

Thanks man - you do put some excellent demos and commentary together!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

This is NOT what I wanted to hear
;)
you're killing me, dude...


Not to waste everyone's time retelling my tale - I've been on that road since Jan/Feb, and I've really just about had it with holding my breath with no clear end in sight.


Since you're the one with the experience, can you tell me - is the 22 the same as the 50/100 in terms of preamp gain and basic tone structure, with the primary difference being the power tubes (EL84s vs 6L6s)? Besides differences in headroom, which lead me to believe that the 50 would be more capable of cleaner gain at higher perceived volumes, is there a very real difference in smoothness, tone, etc.? Knowing that modern metal / Broots (whatever that is
:lol:
) and the heavily agressive stuff is not what I'm looking to do, would you really recommend I go full circle to the 22?


Thanks man - you do put some excellent demos and commentary together!

 

I am also eagerly awaiting this amp to go on sale...along with your answer to this, how well does it do the long sustain, violin solo tone?

 

And also, if you know, when will it be readily available? Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

What is a Blackstar HT50H? I just googled it and couldn't find anything except this topic, seems you just invented an amp. lol

 

By memory there is the HT40, 60 or 100. And there is the S1-45, S1-50 or s1-100 (6l6 version or el34) or s1-200. The S1's are completely different amps to the HT's, they have DPR (like attenuation), ISF for every channel by memory and a few other goodies. The S1's aren't cheap but it's the HT's that get more talk around here, I guess because of the value for money and for some they prefer the sound of the HT's but I guess that's taste and it's easy to like the sound when it's much cheaper.

 

Overall I guess it's not important since your style seems more suited to the JC's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

What is a Blackstar HT50H? I just googled it and couldn't find anything except this topic, seems you just invented an amp. lol


By memory there is the HT40, 60 or 100. And there is the S1-45, S1-50 or s1-100 (6l6 version or el34) or s1-200. The S1's are completely different amps to the HT's, they have DPR (like attenuation), ISF for every channel by memory and a few other goodies. The S1's aren't cheap but it's the HT's that get more talk around here, I guess because of the value for money and for some they prefer the sound of the HT's but I guess that's taste and it's easy to like the sound when it's much cheaper.


Overall I guess it's not important since your style seems more suited to the JC's.

 

 

Ah hell... just too much 'numbers soup'... you caught me editor! Fixed on my original post, although the evidence is still there on the quoted replies. Had it right on the thread title, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I prefer the JCA50 over the 20. I think the Soldano circuit works better with 6L6s than with EL84s. The low end on that circuit is kinda loose to begin with (in a good way) and the EL84's add an extra squish-ness to the tone that doesn't work for me. It's a nice creamy tone for leads but for rhythm it loses definition. The extra headroom on the 50w is also nice and if you like a loud, clean tone, it is a necessity. Since the price difference between the 22h and the 50h will be only $100, I'd go with the 50w.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

If I'm wrong, please forgive my assumption - I could have sworn that I saw a schematic someone had started working on that documented at least the first preamp stage(s), which included FETs used in conjunction with the gain controls. I'm no tube expert, but what I do know leads me to question how they're able to ramp up so much gain with just two tubes (and wouldn't one of those be a phase inverter?). Also simple clipping diodes don't readily lend themselves to smooth clipping like that amp seems to be about. Again - not arguing at all - just interesting to the techie in me
;)

If I'm reading you right, it sounds like you'd agree that the JCA is more old-school variety, while the Blackstar is more of the modern vibe. Thanks for helping me out - I've really enjoyed reading your prior commentaries about how much you like the JCA50s.
:thu:

 

Yes, they have diodes to clip the signal before it hits the tube so the signal is already hot once the tube picks it up and that's how they stack up so much gain with a single tube. Marshall has a similar circuit with the JMP-1 but using 2 tubes. Actually, the HT series and the JMP-1 sound very similar in my opinion.

 

As for clipping diodes leading to a smooth tone, well... it can, depending on how the rest of the amp is designed. There are several amps that use this type of circuit and still get smooth lead tones like the Marshall Jubilee or 2210.

 

But I don't think the HS sounds that smooth, to be honest, there is definitely some harshness in the tone that was a deal breaker for me. However, that same harshness really helps when trying to get modern metal tones. So it's all a matter of the amp serving a certain purpose/style.

 

For the style you play, the JCA will sound much more organic and smoother.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I prefer the JCA50 over the 20. I think the Soldano circuit works better with 6L6s than with EL84s. The low end on that circuit is kinda loose to begin with (in a good way) and the EL84's add an extra squish-ness to the tone that doesn't work for me. It's a nice creamy tone for leads but for rhythm it loses definition. The extra headroom on the 50w is also nice and if you like a loud, clean tone, it is a necessity. Since the price difference between the 22h and the 50h will be only $100, I'd go with the 50w.

 

I think the 22H lead channel (up to a certain point) is tighter and cleaner than the lead channel of my 100H. It angers me so much I'm actually taking the 100H to zach's at the end of this month to mod the lead channel to SLO specs. :o

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I think the 22H lead channel (up to a certain point) is tighter and cleaner than the lead channel of my 100H. It angers me so much
I'm actually taking the 100H to zach's at the end of this month to mod the lead channel to SLO specs.
:o

 

Please make a video/clip of that once it's done. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Jet City hands down. I have the 50H and love it. From what I've heard the Blackstar HT-5 and HT-20 are pretty similar amplifiers - I sold my HT-5 after ~1 month. I've had the Jet City for about 7-8 months now and love it, got rid of all my other amps as it does the deed for me as far as hard rock/metal and cleans.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The turn-off for me on the JCA's is the effects loops. None of the Jet Citys have an effects loop designed for pedals, and I'm big on an EQ in the loop.

 

FWIW, I had a Blackstar HT-60 2x12, with 3 channels. GREAT cleans, and great OD1 channel, but OD2 was over the top saturated, overly compressed, and just useless, IMO. Again, OD1 was great, but I couldn't switch to OD2 for leads, because it was to bright, & grating. Couldn't balance them, and it got on my nerves. Great amp, though.

 

If it were me, I'd look for a Peavey Classic 50 head used.. With $500 to spend, the used market is wide open.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

The turn-off for me on the JCA's is the effects loops. None of the Jet Citys have an effects loop designed for pedals, and I'm big on an EQ in the loop.


FWIW, I had a Blackstar HT-60 2x12, with 3 channels. GREAT cleans, and great OD1 channel, but OD2 was over the top saturated, overly compressed, and just useless, IMO. Again, OD1 was great, but I couldn't switch to OD2 for leads, because it was to bright, & grating. Couldn't balance them, and it got on my nerves. Great amp, though.


If it were me, I'd look for a Peavey Classic 50 head used.. With $500 to spend, the used market is wide open.

 

 

MXR eq works just fine in JCA loop. there's a thread that has an ongoing list of all the pedals that do and don't work well. Very few don't work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...