Jump to content

New Roland GR-55 Guitar to MIDI processor with COSM guitar processing.


elantric

Recommended Posts

  • Members

http://synth.me/music-gear/namm-2011-roland-announce-new-gr-55-guitar-synthesizer

 

"Roland unveiled today their new GR-55 Guitar synthesizer. Standards are still intact such as GK-3 divided pickup and built in foot controls. Roland is considering the new unit to be a revolutionary fushion of synthesis and COSM Guitar Modeling, plus more goodies. Read inside for the specs.

 

Lightning Fast Tracking

 

Years of Roland research and dedication to guitar synthesis and the latest pitch detection technology makes the GR-55 far and away the fastest guitar synth ever.

 

The Gr-55 detects instantly pitch, velocity, and behavior for unprecedented response to your performance.

 

Instant Gratification

 

The unit features 270 Presets and 290 User Presets. No editing required. Easy to use catagories. Choose from100's of great presest from Rock to Pop, and beyond.

 

The EZ edit function found on previous Roland and Boss COSM units is ready and willing to help you get the right tone and shape your sound.

 

USB Connectivity

 

The GR-55 features 2 USB ports. One for Audio/MIDI, while the other serves to allow MIDI song file playback from a USB stick with the built in foot pedals to conveniently control the playback of the song.

 

Effects MIDI Looper

 

As seen before in other GR units of the past two decades the GR-55 features COSM effects and 2 types of multi effects, global reverb and chorus, delay, and a looper, plus MIDI control.

 

 

GR55.JPG

 

blazin.JPG

 

Video here:

 

I will find out at NAMM. I'm heading there this weekend.

 

I suspect this has arrived as the new Roland 13 pin device for 2011, and that a VG-99 update will NOT happen this year.

 

it seems rather comprehensive piece.

 

 

Hopefully they will have a Win/Mac GR-55 Editor - and not just a dumb librarian.

 

seems GR-55 does the following:

 

Guitar to MIDI - triggering its internal sounds.

COSM Guitar Modelling - like VG-99

COSM Amp Modelling, like VG-99

SMF MIDI File playback from a USB stick, and supports embedded MIDI GR-55 patch change commands.

Audio & MIDI I/O via a separate USB port to a PC/Mac, to perform with backing tracks.

 

 

I will find out if the USB audio mutes during patch changes!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 119
  • Created
  • Last Reply
  • Members

I use "older" guitar synths quite a bit ( GR1, GR30, and GR33 plus the GI20 ) and am VERY excited about this release. Between the GR20, GR55, and VG99 I think I would definitely get the GR55 over the GR20 now. I never liked the GR20 enough to upgrade from my existing gear. However, I am not sure whether one should spend more and get the VG99 over the GR55 or not. What do users experienced with the VG99 think? It may be too early to tell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I think it's like comparing apples to oranges.

 

It's got a kind of dumbed down VG-99 capability: only one cosm guitar path whereas the VG-99 has two.

 

The VG-99 models a GR-300 this does not. The HRM waves in the VG-99 have their own characteristic tone - it's unknown what the HRM side of the GR-55 is like but the internal synth: It has its own new GR-55 engine. So maybe it's half a VG-99 and the other half a dedicated guitar synth. It looks and sounds promising, especially for the price.

 

But the advantages are clear: small, metal, floor pedal, some VG capability, a new faster tracking GR synth engine.

 

I'd like to try it out. The low street price means it is more affordable. The patches I've heard seem more suitable for a wide variety of music.

The new looper looks interesting. I wonder how programmable the synth sounds are? Would some of the VG99 patches work on the GR-55?

 

Re: The VG-99

 

I found the factory patches for the VG-99 were honestly a poor representation of what the box could do. Hearing Bill Ruppert's original sounds made me realize the box was so deep that Roland likely didn't know what it had on its hands.

 

In fact, I'm still discovering things two years on - the permutations of sound sources to effects to eq to outputs seems almost infinite in this box .

 

Yeah, it's not perfect but it's like someone read my mind about my dream machine and there it is. There are some issues that would have been nice to correct but I can still play out with the box. In the last year I've played five gigs that lasted anywhere from an hour to five hours and the box was flawless. No problems at all.

 

IMO The patches built into the VG99 seemed like something whipped together the weekend before NAMM. Rupperts' music and sounds were eloquent and deep like a Bechstein or Steinway. The built in sounds I've overwritten every one of them. All 200 in the first bank. I just wish the second 200 were overwritable too. It took me about eight solid months of programming to kind of suss the box out. It's got one of the widest tonal pallettes I've ever encountered on a piece of gear ever.

 

You know that thing where a piece of gear has a certain characteristic sound that permeates everything? This does have a kind of sonic footprint but it will take you quite a while to hear it - the thing has an insanely wide tonal pallette.

 

But, it's why it's $1500 and the GR-55 is $700.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I've already got a GR33 and VG99, but it seems whenever Roland comes out with a new guitar synth, I wind up selling the previous model to get the new one. Although, I didn't go for the GR20 since it was a more stripped down model. But I sold my GR50 to get a GR30, and sold that to get the GR33. I'm just wondering how the GR55 compares to the GR33 soundwise? I'm mostly interested in ambient sounds.

 

Anyone know what the synth engine is based on? The GR33 is based on the JV1080 and the GR30 is based on the Sound Canvas. So I'd imagine it's based on some current Roland keyboard or module. I like the smaller size of the GR55 and the fact that it's got looping capability. In the video, it seemed to track extremely well on the lead sounds without glitching. It was also cool that you could use a USB stick to load patches or for backing tracks. Looking forward to test driving one of these as soon as they hit the local music stores.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I have not posted here for a long while so forgive me for butting in. I have some mixed reservations about the GR 55. It always evolves around tracking for me. I'll be interested to see how the tracking works on this model. The GR-33's (yes I had a couple) were always too dicey to play live for me. YOu have to play precisely and with a guitar setup perfectly. Sometimes stage sound would throw it off the pitch to MIDI conversion....and I tried many guitars trying to get it tolerable.

 

If the GR-55 is more forgiving about the guitar, the playing style, able to reject odd string vibrations and have close to zero latency, I'll be all over it. I think Roland is counting on the VG-99 component of the box taking care of some of those complaints...if 50% of your output signal is through the VG circuit (a processor) and the rest in through the pitch to MIDI conversion it will cover up alot of tracking errors. Wish it had a squencer built in though.

 

Roland has always had a problem that sales people can't tell a processor from a guitar synth...this will fix that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

I have not posted here for a long while so forgive me for butting in. I have some mixed reservations about the GR 55. It always evolves around tracking for me. I'll be interested to see how the tracking works on this model. The GR-33's (yes I had a couple) were always too dicey to play live for me. YOu have to play precisely and with a guitar setup perfectly. Sometimes stage sound would throw it off the pitch to MIDI conversion....and I tried many guitars trying to get it tolerable.


If the GR-55 is more forgiving about the guitar, the playing style, able to reject odd string vibrations and have close to zero latency, I'll be all over it. I think Roland is counting on the VG-99 component of the box taking care of some of those complaints...if 50% of your output signal is through the VG circuit (a processor) and the rest in through the pitch to MIDI conversion it will cover up alot of tracking errors. Wish it had a squencer built in though.


Roland has always had a problem that sales people can't tell a processor from a guitar synth...this will fix that.

 

 

Well that's the question, now isn't it? I have found that the tracking of the GR-30 is just fine in regards to the internal sounds, but the MIDI out is where it loses it. It just doesn't do well there. Oh well, only cost me $40 to try.

 

I've also owned the GI-20, that despite a year of constant tweaking was always aggravating as hell to use with AU instruments. Sold it. Never looked back.

 

The big question for me is this: I know I'll be happy with how this thing tracks internally, especially if it's improved over the 30/33. However I NEED it to do well plugged into my Mac, because I want to use Sampletank and other stuff there. If it still fails, then I'm sticking with the Starr Labs Ztar idea, even though it's a lot more expensive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The Roland GR-55 fails to deliver on a key feature found in the GR-50 from 1988. The GR-50 featured 12 PCM sounds at once and 12 Midi Channels out. The new Roland GR-55 only has 2 PCM sounds at once, COSM modeling and 6 Midi Channels out. Roland claims the GR-55 makes 4 sounds at once when it combines the clean guitar sound.

 

I've been having discussion with Roland's head synth guy, Peter S. Asking him to implement that GR-50 feature. Imagine if you would hear 4 different sounds on each string for a total of 24 sounds on 6 strings? It is an incredible sound. I went to this years NAMM Show hoping to hear the new guitar synth with what I was lead to believe from Roland. But it only has 2 PCM sounds at once, just like every Roland Guitar Synth since the GR-50.

 

Of the 910 types of PCH sounds there are no elaborate sounds like those on Roland keyboards. It's all bass guitar, guitar, flutes, sax, trumpets, strings, etc. The same sound set since the GR-1. Roland keeps returning to square 1 to reintroduce the Guitar Synth to new buyers. This failure of Roland's R&D and Marketing lacks innovation that existing Guitar Synth players expect. Why does Roland continue to give us 6 Midi outputs to play other synths but won't let is play 6 internal sounds at once? The GR-50 has 131 note/voice polyphony but does not plays 2 PCM sounds at once.

 

I spoke with 4 Roland reps at this years show. One told me if there was a Version 2 of the GR-55, it could have that GR-50 feature. We will have to wait and see. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I currently use a Gi-20 (just for my hone rig) with a RMC piezo. It would be nice to have some decent sounds built in and in addition to that have some modeling stuff to mess with a little. I also like the idea of a looper too as I currently use Ableton for that at home. Right now, all that stuff is a novelty to me as I don't want to bring my PC to gigs or rely on a PC in a live setting.

 

I have some routing questions maybe some of you can help me with:

 

1. Ableton Live allows me to direct the output of my Guitar to just my amp and the synth output just to my stereo. Since the GR-55 has amp modeling, will I be able to have the synth sounds come out of JUST my stereo/PA and the guitar modeling/non synth sounds JUST come out of my guitar amp? I'm guessing not but......

 

2. I currently have my PC in my amp effects loop so when doing looping with Ableton Live, the played back riff will have the effects (from my TC G-System) and amp channel (I have a 4 channel amp) that I recorded it using. Is the optimal routing for the Gr-55 to have it not in the amp effects loop?

 

3. Does anyone know if the Gr-55 will be able to control preset changes on the TC G-System in case I want to configure G-System presets to be paired with GR-55 ones?

 

Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 


Of the 910 types of PCH sounds there are no elaborate sounds like those on Roland keyboards. It's all bass guitar, guitar, flutes, sax, trumpets, strings, etc. The same sound set since the GR-1. Roland keeps returning to square 1 to reintroduce the Guitar Synth to new buyers. This failure of Roland's R&D and Marketing lacks innovation that existing Guitar Synth players expect.

 

 

I haven't heard the GR55 in person but have seen the demo video's. But as far as the Roland GR line having the same soundset since the GR1 and not having elaborate sounds like Roland keyboards - I have to respectfully disagree. I'm currently using a GR33 (and have owned a GR50 and GR30 before this) and I find that it has lots of elaborate synth sounds like lush pads, evolving textures, and sci-fi sounds that I use it for exclusively in my ambient music. I never use the kinds of sounds you mentioned like guitar, bass, sax, trumpets, etc on it. But for the more ambient sounds, on some I use the presets, and I've also tweaked some fantastic new age soundscape-type sounds on it.

 

Each model of the GR line has improved sound-wise in my opinion. I'm not sure what the sound engine in the GR50 was but the GR30 was based on the Sound Canvas and the GR33 is based on the JV 1080 synth module which was a major upgrade and has lots of variety. As far as the GR50 feature you spoke of, it's been a very long time since I owned mine in the '90's so I don't remember that, but I do remember that the sounds I got out of it were pretty plain compared to what I get out of the GR33. Although I was much newer to synthesizers back then and probably didn't get into using the feature you described, or go beyond plug in and play with the presets, so perhaps not a fair comparison as to what the GR50 is capable of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Here is another question concerning using the GR-55 without a Roland divided pickup, e.g. with a Godin LG-XTsa. Does the GR-55 have proper filtering intact to be able to accept and trigger properly without the Roland pickup? I know that people have been modding their VG99's with a high pass filter board from RMC. Supposedly even an operating system update from Roland remediated but did not completely fix the problems with low frequency noise. I have a GI-20 right now that is working fine with my LG-XTsa, but the new GR-55 processor is exciting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

To help control my GAS for the GR-55 I sat down today and finished recording a song's keys parts with my Fantom X6. During the session, I kept the GR-55 in mind as well as my experiences with GR-33s and GR-30s and the VG-99. My conclusion: I won't be selling the Fantom to make room for a GR-55...I think I've gotten to the point I play keys well enough I don't have to use a GR to record. A keyboard makes a better keyboard than a guitar synth. That said, I might be interested in GR-55 though just to replace my GT-8 with a VG-99 subset of functions. Actually, it is the combined set of features of both synthesis and hex processing that make it interesting and at the same time kinda weak. The only last hitch is dealing with the GK cable thing again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The Roland GR-55 fails to deliver on a key feature found in the GR-50 from 1988. The GR-50 featured 12 PCM sounds at once and 12 Midi Channels out. The new Roland GR-55 only has 2 PCM sounds at once, COSM modeling and 6 Midi Channels out. Roland claims the GR-55 makes 4 sounds at once when it combines the clean guitar sound.


I've been having discussion with Roland's head synth guy, Peter S. Asking him to implement that GR-50 feature. Imagine if you would hear 4 different sounds on each string for a total of 24 sounds on 6 strings? It is an incredible sound. I went to this years NAMM Show hoping to hear the new guitar synth with what I was lead to believe from Roland. But it only has 2 PCM sounds at once, just like every Roland Guitar Synth since the GR-50.


Of the 910 types of PCH sounds there are no elaborate sounds like those on Roland keyboards. It's all bass guitar, guitar, flutes, sax, trumpets, strings, etc. The same sound set since the GR-1. Roland keeps returning to square 1 to reintroduce the Guitar Synth to new buyers. This failure of Roland's R&D and Marketing lacks innovation that existing Guitar Synth players expect. Why does Roland continue to give us 6 Midi outputs to play other synths but won't let is play 6 internal sounds at once? The GR-50 has 131 note/voice polyphony but does not plays 2 PCM sounds at once.


I spoke with 4 Roland reps at this years show. One told me if there was a Version 2 of the GR-55, it could have that GR-50 feature. We will have to wait and see.
:)

 

While I understand that feature is important to you personally, I imagine many others don't really care, myself included. Given the "simplicity" angle Roland seems to be going for here with the GR-20 earlier and now the 55, it seems they agree.

 

There are players like you, sure. But guitarists as a whole are a fickle, technophobic lot that I think Roland has had a hard time reeling in with guitar synth stuff. They probably feel that the simpler the better, and confusing them with stuff they may never use (6 sounds per string? Really?) might scare them off.

 

Just a thought.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

To help control my GAS for the GR-55 I sat down today and finished recording a song's keys parts with my Fantom X6. During the session, I kept the GR-55 in mind as well as my experiences with GR-33s and GR-30s and the VG-99. My conclusion: I won't be selling the Fantom to make room for a GR-55...I think I've gotten to the point I play keys well enough I don't have to use a GR to record. A keyboard makes a better keyboard than a guitar synth. That said, I might be interested in GR-55 though just to replace my GT-8 with a VG-99 subset of functions. Actually, it is the combined set of features of both synthesis and hex processing that make it interesting and at the same time kinda weak. The only last hitch is dealing with the GK cable thing again.

 

 

I really, really wish I could play keyboards, because it's a helluva lot cheaper to buy a decent MIDI USB controller like an Axiom are the like if the end goal is to just trigger software instruments on a computer, or even a box like the JV-1080.

 

As such it's cost me a lot of money and frustration so far via the GI-20, YRG controller, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I'm curious to see how external synth tracking goes. If it is indeed "twice as fast" as the last Roland model (.. VG-99, GI-20?), then that would mean it's in Axon territory. I sold my AX100 a month ago from pure frustration and kind of agree with the "just play keyboard" sentiment. The time I spent editing more complicated sections basically could've been spent practicing the keyboard part and editing that a whole lot less. I'm a big fan of my VG-8EX for just the synth/pitch/tuning/acoustic effects; don't have a VG-99 though it's crossed my mind many a time and I have decent experience using one. On the other hand, the killing point has been that the VG and GR series synth sounds are a clear step behind top-of-the-line synths.

 

Which made the Axon great... but the worst part of the Axon after plenty of tweaking... always came back to ghost notes. I used a Godin/piezo system, a Fender Roland Ready Strat, and a GK3 on my main gtr.. spent plenty of time adjusting sensitivity and other Axon parameters.... It truly triggers fast as hell, but whenever I'd get it to a near perfect, comfortable level of playing... completely off-key ghost notes would sputter all over the place. Made life hell in Finale, Reason, Logic and Ableton unless I'm playing parts so simple... again... I could just play them on keyboard.

 

Atleast with the GM-70 and my old Roland G505, I'd understand that I'm working with a delay, and I was able to adjust my playing. I don't know why, but my best software midi results came from that unit. The Axon would shine when I triggered a synth module (Triton rack) and blended with my true guitar signal... the ghost notes would get lost in my real guitar's tone. But every time I recorded... I'd just be horrified at the faulty notes. Most fun you can have is playing fast guitar solos with the Axon. But playing tight parts or chords is a nightmare.

 

ANYWAY... this brings me to the GR-55. I'm intrigued. Yes, I'd love to have the Axon's rate of pitch-to-conversion available to me since I sold it.. and the GR55 would be much useful and practical in live situations. But to me... the GR series has kind of been trapped in the early 90s as far as sonic qualities. I was impressed little bit with the demos, but what has me wondering is the price.

 

$700 for the amount of features is kind of cheap. I get that electronics/digital technology is cheaper... but a VG-99 is priced new at $1400 and many people reason it's worth it. Will the 55's COSM be on par with even "half" a VG-99? Will the standalone PCM sounds be an upgrade from the GR-20? I'm gonna wait a month after it comes out to hear the reviews, because it sounds promising, but I'm pessimistic about new Roland products.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I've also been using a GR-33 or the past few years along with my Godin LGX-SA and Boss GT Pro as my guitar processor through an Atomic flat response amp. The GR-33 runs stereo out to the PA system, while the guitar runs into my GT-Pro/Atomic Amp (or sometimes a Fender Deluxe Reverb). This offers me great flexibility in processing and outputting my guitar synths and guitar sounds independent of one another. Which brings me to my two biggest gripes about what I'm seeing on the GR-55 so far:

 

1. If you're going to market the GR-55 as an all-in-1 guitar synthesizer AND guitar processor with on board guitar/amp COSM sounds, then why limit the output to a simple stereo mains out? Yeah, there's also a guitar out, but that only transmits the unprocessed clean sound of your guitar, from my understanding, so if you wanted to use it you'd still need outboard guitar processors/amps, otherwise this basically means that you're forced to run your guitar synths and guitar COSM sounds into one stereo out, and preferably a PA or two flat response cabinets (i.e. Atomics). I know many players (including myself) who'd love to be able to use the COSM guitars and effects but bypass the amp simulators (since they historically suck on Roland/Boss gear) and run the guitar sounds out to a standard guitar setup/tube amp, etc., (i.e. "4 cable method"). Can't do it with the GR55 if you can't separate the synths from the guitar sounds! Ever heard keyboards through a Marshall? Ugh!

 

2. No additional expression pedal out jack! Again, if you're trying to market this as a potential guitar processor, then why limit the functionality? The only option I see around this is if you could somehow assign expression or volume changes to any of the 4 onboard pedals. Otherwise, this is another big oversight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

yeah-- I think more routing options is somewhat of a miss. I am not big on amp and guitar modeling but I'm not sure that I want my real guitar sound coming out of my amp and these foreign guitar sounds coming from a completely different amp..it seems odd or perhaps even gimmicky..but maybe it's just me. I suppose there are people with multi amp setups and this type of arrangement is fine..

 

 

I would however also like the flexibility of having different ways of adding external on board synth sounds and effects..kind of like the Muse Receptor as I'm not sure I want to be limited by the sounds they provide. The muse receptor seems great but you would still need a GI-20 or some other converter and I presume that if everything was integrated the latency would be less of an issue..although I'm not really sure if this.

 

I think the industry is slowly adapting to the idea of having more flexible and updateable hardware since there are so many sounds out there and people want to integrate various things into a single piece of hardware for the sake of convenience.

 

Perhaps guitar synth isn't the most popular thing in the world and I'm glad Roland is still making advances in this area. I guess they have to make something that is affordable and appealing to the masses...including cost. I think I'll wait for some reviews and may strongly consider the Gr-55.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

I've also been using a GR-33 or the past few years along with my Godin LGX-SA and Boss GT Pro as my guitar processor through an Atomic flat response amp. The GR-33 runs stereo out to the PA system, while the guitar runs into my GT-Pro/Atomic Amp (or sometimes a Fender Deluxe Reverb). This offers me great flexibility in processing and outputting my guitar synths and guitar sounds independent of one another. Which brings me to my two biggest gripes about what I'm seeing on the GR-55 so far:


1. If you're going to market the GR-55 as an
all-in-1
guitar synthesizer AND guitar processor with on board guitar/amp COSM sounds, then why limit the output to a simple stereo mains out? Yeah, there's also a guitar out, but that only transmits the unprocessed clean sound of your guitar, from my understanding, so if you wanted to use it you'd still need outboard guitar processors/amps, otherwise this basically means that you're forced to run your guitar synths and guitar COSM sounds into one stereo out, and preferably a PA or two flat response cabinets (i.e. Atomics). I know many players (including myself) who'd love to be able to use the COSM guitars and effects but bypass the amp simulators (since they historically suck on Roland/Boss gear) and run the guitar sounds out to a standard guitar setup/tube amp, etc., (i.e. "4 cable method"). Can't do it with the GR55 if you can't separate the synths from the guitar sounds! Ever heard keyboards through a Marshall? Ugh!


2. No additional expression pedal out jack! Again, if you're trying to market this as a potential guitar processor, then why limit the functionality? The only option I see around this is if you could somehow assign expression or volume changes to any of the 4 onboard pedals. Otherwise, this is another big oversight.

 

 

I believe the Guitar out can be routed to send the processed/Cosm sound.

From another forum where someone did a hands on examination at NAMM : "the COSM Modeled Guitar sounds can be sent out the Guitar Output jack on the back of the unit...so you can run your COSM sounds to an amp or separate channel on the PA. "

 

Additionally, another person at NAMM who played the unit for half an hour, said the tracking is significantly improved, the best he had tried (and he has used the axon).

 

Sounds like they have a winner here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

I believe the Guitar out can be routed to send the processed/Cosm sound.

From another forum where someone did a hands on examination at NAMM : "the COSM Modeled Guitar sounds can be sent out the Guitar Output jack on the back of the unit...so you can run your COSM sounds to an amp or separate channel on the PA. "

 

 

If this is true then that's a BIG plus. I'd love to cut back all the gear I'm currently bringing to my gigs and you couldn't do that on the GR-33.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

As a owner of GR-33, several GR-30's, GR-50 and a VG-88, I see where Roland is coming from with this. It's for the guy who likes pre-programmed sounds and wants an easy all in one, compact, foot operated box. I played it at NAMM, and from my brief time with it, I was impressed. The tracking was great I thought. I certainly want it and look forward to spending a bit more time with it. I think it is priced to sell....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...