Members SergioLeone Posted July 14, 2011 Members Share Posted July 14, 2011 When I inhale parts of my torso (stomach, lower back muscles, rib area, solar plexus) expand - as in they move outwards. When I release air it all gets sucked in towards centre of my body. Do I sing as I'm exhaling? As the air is being released from my body do I then release notes? I know this sounds really really simple but I'm on that level of simple right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members staticsound Posted July 14, 2011 Members Share Posted July 14, 2011 Yes, that sounds like youre breathing right. Just don't release too much air with the note, it's a matter of holding back air and releasing a controlled stream. Try the candle trick, you should be able to sing a note holding a candle in front of your mouth without blowing out the flame...just don't set your head on fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wrongnote85 Posted July 14, 2011 Members Share Posted July 14, 2011 you need to breath into your chest first, making your ribs expand. then you fill your stomach area with air. push the air from your stomach to sing using the torso air as reserve. rinse and repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SergioLeone Posted July 14, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 14, 2011 OK here is an example. The first one you can hear me inhaling and as I exhale I sing out. http://www.box.net/shared/zml609ohjbpoony89q5f In the second the two first parts I sing as I have previouly. Which is I don't inhale but I push/pull my belly button in and sing out. The rest of that Breathing 2 is me inhaling and then singing out as I exhale. http://www.box.net/shared/pfjm6tguo8v40tbso1x6 I think I might have done it wrong this whole time? Which sounds better? This for example is a song where I was singing out as I was pulling my belly button in: http://www.box.net/shared/3z02fa8fbg3r9kgzc8bv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members staticsound Posted July 14, 2011 Members Share Posted July 14, 2011 you need to breath into your chest first, making your ribs expand. then you fill your stomach area with air. push the air from your stomach to sing using the torso air as reserve. rinse and repeat. Umm...no. Your chest should be the last thing to fill up with air. If your chest expands and your shoulders move, you're breathing shallow...and wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SergioLeone Posted July 14, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 14, 2011 Umm...no. Your chest should be the last thing to fill up with air. If your chest expands and your shoulders move, you're breathing shallow...and wrong. Yes this is what I've learned.Shallow breathing constricts breathing, strains neck and vocal chords. And also raises shoulders. It's the rib-cage that should expand (side to side)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Consume Posted July 14, 2011 Members Share Posted July 14, 2011 you need to breath into your chest first, making your ribs expand. then you fill your stomach area with air. push the air from your stomach to sing using the torso air as reserve. rinse and repeat. You've got it backwards. A Chest breath is a shallow breath. You inhale filling from the bottom up. Your lower ribs float, so you expand the floating ribs and Intercostal muscles while you press your inner organs down with your diaphragm. The key is learning to hold your diaphragm down for a longer period of time so that the air doesn't just rush out of your lungs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members staticsound Posted July 14, 2011 Members Share Posted July 14, 2011 Yes this is what I've learned.Shallow breathing constricts breathing, strains neck and vocal chords. And also raises shoulders. It's the rib-cage that should expand (side to side)? Yeah, lower ribs. Consume pretty much summed it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators davie Posted July 14, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 14, 2011 Here's a good tip that might help your breathing. Use your hands and press down on your sternum (the center bone that connects the front ribs), and then take a deep breath by inhaling through your mouth AND nose at the same time. You should feel your entire back expanding. Then as you sing your solar plexus (upper abs) should expand outwards and your lower abs pull inwards. Try it and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SergioLeone Posted July 14, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 14, 2011 Thanks I will. I just don't understand how some of my teachers haven't noticed that I barely inhale (if at all) right before singing? Is there a problem with breathing in too much? Because at the rate I was going there was very little air to exhale. I now think this was the reason for my tension. That and shallow breathing. It's gotten so bad that I now (sometimes) feel tension at the sides of my neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators davie Posted July 14, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 14, 2011 I think I use to under-breath as well. In such cases it may help to breath in more. Shallow breathing can cause neck tension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kyle_The_Kid Posted July 15, 2011 Members Share Posted July 15, 2011 you need to breath into your chest first, making your ribs expand. then you fill your stomach area with air. push the air from your stomach to sing using the torso air as reserve. rinse and repeat. Ya...don't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted July 15, 2011 Members Share Posted July 15, 2011 I think I use to under-breath as well. In such cases it may help to breath in more. Shallow breathing can cause neck tension. I find myself under-breathing a LOT when just relaxing or at work, etc. Maybe that's hy my neck hurts so often! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Consume Posted July 15, 2011 Members Share Posted July 15, 2011 Thanks I will. I just don't understand how some of my teachers haven't noticed that I barely inhale (if at all) right before singing? Is there a problem with breathing in too much? Because at the rate I was going there was very little air to exhale. I now think this was the reason for my tension. That and shallow breathing. It's gotten so bad that I now (sometimes) feel tension at the sides of my neck. It is because most voice instructors don't recognize the importance of breathing in singing. It is sad really. But that is why you have people like Jaime Vendera, Robert Lunte, and Al Koehn who are light years ahead of the rest of these people - because they recognize what the deal is - and teach it. That was why I was so interested in the PTD-1 - it helps train you to breathe this way.... actually, if you have it in your mouth - there is no other way to breathe through your mouth - it controls the flow of air. I was having a hard time doing it until I got this thing - because it gives you something to focus on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Consume Posted July 15, 2011 Members Share Posted July 15, 2011 I find myself under-breathing a LOT when just relaxing or at work, etc. Maybe that's hy my neck hurts so often! It could be - mine was the same way, and when I would breathe and sing, the muscles that run down my neck and into my upper chest would tense up at times. Needless to say - it sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted July 15, 2011 Members Share Posted July 15, 2011 I think I breathe ok when I'm actually singing. It's the other non-singing times I under-breathe / shallow breathe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SergioLeone Posted July 15, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 15, 2011 Doing the lighter test on I believe I can fly. Noticed that towards the end I lost my support and the flame started flickering. But should stop singing cause side of my neck still strains a bit. http://www.box.net/shared/745f3otltpbjecxc10ag It kinds sounds like I'm in some dark room with only a lighter to read the lyrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DukeOfBoom Posted July 15, 2011 Members Share Posted July 15, 2011 You NEED to the PTD-1!!! THE PTD1!!!!! PTD-1!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SergioLeone Posted July 15, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 15, 2011 lol I don't know what that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Consume Posted July 15, 2011 Members Share Posted July 15, 2011 You NEED to the PTD-1!!! THE PTD1!!!!! PTD-1!!!!!!! Let me ask you a question: Don't you have any musical products that are your "go to" pieces of gear? Do you think they are great? If somebody needs something, and your "go to" piece of gear fits the bill perfectly, do you keep your mouth shut, or do you suggest that piece of gear? The PTD-1 is my "go to" piece of gear for singing. It took care of every breath support issue that I had, and it keeps my breathing and breath support right where I want it to be. I can sing into any working microphone and as long as there is a decent working EQ it can be EQ'd to give me a usable sound. I have sung through some of the crappiest PA's out there up to some extremely nice ones; my favorite was a Bag End ELF Gem system that allegedly would go all the way down to 8HZ of chest pounding lows and that you could talk over - they claimed it could deliver the feeling of a concussion in your chest - like when a professional fireworks display goes off - yet you could still talk and be heard over it. Awesome rig. If they were affordable, and I owned one - that would be my "go to" PA system. My point is, this device works for me, and I would love to see other singers have the same breathing ability. very few of the guys that I know personally who have trained SLS can hold their notes out half as long as I can. Of course there are other things that I swear by as well - room temperature water, but that doesn't help you train to hold your floating ribs out for long periods of time. If you know how to breathe correctly, taker a deep breath, and hold your ribs open and keep them held open as you slowly allow your lungs to collapse. It isn't exactly an easy thing to do, and it certainly isn't a pleasant feeling - it is one of those things that you have to get used to doing. Using the PTD-1 takes the focus off of that - you end up focusing on the device, because it only allows a predetermined amount of air in or out. Training without it is like doing pushups to build your upper body, while using it is like lifting weights. Which on is going to make you stronger and more efficient? For me, I'll take the weight-lifting routine if I am going to have to do one or the other. Have you contacted him yet? If not, why not? I've learned a lot from the guy. Either way, I'm sure he will appreciate you advertising it for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SergioLeone Posted July 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 16, 2011 It is because most voice instructors don't recognize the importance of breathing in singing. It is sad really. But that is why you have people like Jaime Vendera, Robert Lunte, and Al Koehn who are light years ahead of the rest of these people - because they recognize what the deal is - and teach it. That was why I was so interested in the PTD-1 - it helps train you to breathe this way.... actually, if you have it in your mouth - there is no other way to breathe through your mouth - it controls the flow of air. I was having a hard time doing it until I got this thing - because it gives you something to focus on. Do you have a link? Does anybody else know about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wrongnote85 Posted July 16, 2011 Members Share Posted July 16, 2011 lol, i did it after i posted and realized i did put it backwards. yea, forget my first post in this thread. my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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