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Are Singing Lessons Worth It - Before & After Comparison

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  • Are Singing Lessons Worth It - Before & After Comparison

    Hey Folks

    I figured I'd chimed in enough on other people's singing and the debate about taking lessons without really putting my mouth where my money is.

    Here are two recordings I did of the same song two and a half years apart if anyone would like to hear the difference.

    I calculate I've spent around £1300 on lessons and I also invested in a portable Zoom recorder which allowed me to record my lessons so I could go over them repeatedly on my own. I've practiced almost daily for at least 30 or 40 minutes, often more unless I've been sick or away somewhere.

    I must say none of this stuff comes naturally to me so I feel likes it's been a bit of a struggle at times and against all my natural instincts. I know I've p*****d off my instructors at various points..not because I haven't put the work in but it seems like I'm quite introverted compared to their other students and it seems to exasperate them when I insist on singing whilst stood still with my hands in my pockets.

    https://soundcloud.com/cosmicdolphin...illers/s-RTAFs

    https://soundcloud.com/cosmicdolphin...illers/s-RTAFs

    I think I've mentioned it elsewhere but before I had one on one singing lessons in 2015 , I did several 'study at home' type courses over about 5 yrs ( Sing with Freedom , Superior Singing Method etc) ..I mainly did those because I was too embarrassed to learn on to one but I think the help they gave was limited due to the nature of them.

    CD


  • #2

    Originally posted by CosmicDolphin View Post

    I calculate I've spent around £1300 on lessons and I also invested in a portable Zoom recorder which allowed me to record my lessons so I could go over them repeatedly on my own. I've practiced almost daily for at least 30 or 40 minutes, often more unless I've been sick or away somewhere.
    £1300 on lessons that is a lot of money and a lot of lessons! I don't do a lot of lessons myself but I do a lot of the work out exercises and its more then 40 mins and some days it can be as long as 4hrs
    Do you perform profesaly and have you got this money back?
    Where these lessons $100/hr sype or £30/hr go round there house and sit in front of there piano?

    Originally posted by CosmicDolphin View Post
    I must say none of this stuff comes naturally to me so I feel likes it's been a bit of a struggle at times and against all my natural instincts. I know I've p*****d off my instructors at various points..not because I haven't put the work in but it seems like I'm quite introverted compared to their other students and it seems to exasperate them when I insist on singing whilst stood still with my hands in my pockets.
    I think none of it comes naturally to anyone and anyone who says it dose is lying!
    I don't know what you mean by pissing your teachers off by singing in your pockets but if they want to see proper breath and alinment support then that is what I do

    Originally posted by CosmicDolphin View Post
    I think I've mentioned it elsewhere but before I had one on one singing lessons in 2015 , I did several 'study at home' type courses over about 5 yrs ( Sing with Freedom , Superior Singing Method etc) ..I mainly did those because I was too embarrassed to learn on to one but I think the help they gave was limited due to the nature of them.
    I started my training that way myself, (without a teacher and just off books and recording) but there is only so far you can go and you still need someone with more experance then you to guide you through the exercises and make sure you are doing them right; (calibration). But embarrassed! no I don't look at it that way, people think singing is all about the x-factor, facebook and other silly little things for silly little people; with out a thought of how profesanal production works, but when I do these exercises I know how much you try and educate people/them they will not listen! so the best thing I do is do these silly little vocal work outs where no one can hear me, simple as

    Now back to your song review
    Your earlyer one is much more pitchy then the later one and your voice seamed weaker back then; but you have not nailed it yet!
    The later one, I still hear a drift off pitch and a lack of compresion when you go up the notes into (what would appear) your passargio rang. strengthaning your voice should be the priority for you right now!
    Last edited by New2; 12-14-2017, 09:22 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by New2 View Post
      Do you perform profesaly and have you got this money back?
      Where these lessons $100/hr sype or £30/hr go round there house and sit in front of there piano?
      No I don't perform professionally although I do write production music that gets used on TV and Radio.. I also write songs as well but I've only pitched a few of them so far. I think having singing lessons has helped me generally with my music. Ear training, learning harmonies ..that sort of stuff.

      They were £30 per hour type lessons at the teachers studio , yes with a piano etc.

      Thanks for the listen !


      Last edited by CosmicDolphin; 12-15-2017, 03:35 PM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by CosmicDolphin View Post

        No I don't perform professionally although I do write production music that gets used on TV and Radio
        Are; you mean like TV radio commercials
        Last edited by New2; 12-15-2017, 09:13 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by CosmicDolphin View Post
          Hey Folks

          I figured I'd chimed in enough on other people's singing and the debate about taking lessons without really putting my mouth where my money is.

          Here are two recordings I did of the same song two and a half years apart if anyone would like to hear the difference.

          I calculate I've spent around £1300 on lessons and I also invested in a portable Zoom recorder which allowed me to record my lessons so I could go over them repeatedly on my own. I've practiced almost daily for at least 30 or 40 minutes, often more unless I've been sick or away somewhere.

          I must say none of this stuff comes naturally to me so I feel likes it's been a bit of a struggle at times and against all my natural instincts. I know I've p*****d off my instructors at various points..not because I haven't put the work in but it seems like I'm quite introverted compared to their other students and it seems to exasperate them when I insist on singing whilst stood still with my hands in my pockets.

          https://soundcloud.com/cosmicdolphin...illers/s-RTAFs

          https://soundcloud.com/cosmicdolphin...illers/s-RTAFs

          I think I've mentioned it elsewhere but before I had one on one singing lessons in 2015 , I did several 'study at home' type courses over about 5 yrs ( Sing with Freedom , Superior Singing Method etc) ..I mainly did those because I was too embarrassed to learn on to one but I think the help they gave was limited due to the nature of them.

          CD
          you sound alot more confident in the newer one, however fundamentally I hear very little difference in terms of vocal capability. You have pretty good pitch fundamentally within the lower range. And your voice has a nice quality to it. your voice sounds basically the same though, given that long a time frame.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by New2 View Post
            Are; you mean like TV radio commercials
            Yeah there's one running at the moment in a Radio Ad campaign for Renault in Australia but most of it is used as background music for Reality TV shows..stuff like Catfish , American Pickers etc.

            Comment


            • #7
              If you find the right voice teacher then voice lessons are definitely worth it. Regarding results it also comes down to how dedicated the student as well, a good voice teacher can take you far as long as you're willing to put in the work required to get there. The biggest advantage of being in a voice lesson is having someone else's objective but trained ear as well as to give you real-time feedback as you work on vocal adjustments. Not only does a teacher need to be knowledgeable and technical but also encouraging and personable, since a good teacher-student relationship is also important to making progress. In my opinion, those "study at home" vocal programs can be either hit or miss, since some methods can be questionable, but there are some that can be good as a supplement to singers with at least a basic foundation.

              I had a few listens to your recordings, I definitely hear some improvement. Overall its more solid sounding now. Some things I noticed are a smoother onset of sound, and sustained notes staying in pitch better. Improvement is continual progress. If you found a method that works for you then just keep at it, these things take time but will one day eventually "click" and things seem to just fall in place.
              Moderator - Vocals and Voiceovers Forum
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Life888 View Post

                you sound alot more confident in the newer one, however fundamentally I hear very little difference in terms of vocal capability. You have pretty good pitch fundamentally within the lower range. And your voice has a nice quality to it. your voice sounds basically the same though, given that long a time frame.
                I have to make a comment in this since it shows how we distort values so easily when we get lost on trying to achieve "things" on singing.

                On one hand you say he sounds much more confident, good pitch, and good quality. On the other, you state "little difference in terms of vocal capability".

                These things ARE what make someone capable when it comes to singing, nothing else (I would add rhythm articulation too, but its part of why it sounds more confident). Of course, everyone can day dream about how attempting lots of different qualities, going high, low, and then pretend they got better, but these simple, basic things are what will sell your show/recording/gig/whatever.

                If you get to a point you can sing with confidence on a comfortable range, doesn't even need to go high, you will be on a position of offering your services as a singer that gets the job done, with quality. From there, then you can polish your skill and become more and more capable, dealing with high level material, multiple styles, more personality and opening more possibilities.

                One of the reasons why lessons are a good idea is exactly getting exposed to real world and involved with other singers, knowing where you are getting into and what you will really need as opposed to seeking random goals that lead nowhere.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by FelipeCarvalho View Post

                  I have to make a comment in this since it shows how we distort values so easily when we get lost on trying to achieve "things" on singing..
                  Thanks for chipping in Felipe..what did you think to the old one Vs the new one ?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Better than a thousand days of diligent study is one day with a great teacher
                    -Japanese Proverb

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by FelipeCarvalho View Post
                      If you get to a point you can sing with confidence on a comfortable range, doesn't even need to go high, you will be on a position of offering your services as a singer that gets the job done, with quality. From there, then you can polish your skill and become more and more capable, dealing with high level material, multiple styles, more personality and opening more possibilities.
                      I think he needs to work on his range on the higher notes for the song in question rather then sing easyer and flater stuff
                      To be honest that song is quite an easy one to learn to sing anyway

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CosmicDolphin View Post
                        Thanks for chipping in Felipe..what did you think to the old one Vs the new one ?
                        I like the result! Would have liked you going a bit more aggressive on some spots but that's an interpretation thing.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So I have had another look at your song (the 2017 one)
                          And hear are bits I really do not like and all from the chorus

                          or are we danceing
                          and im on my knees
                          will your system be alright

                          As I said before it dose sound like a lack of compression in your voice to be able to hit those E4/G4 notes; but maybe I could be wrong..read on.

                          It all sound a bit breathy to me specially in the chorus and most specially the above part I have underlined above.
                          When I say breathy I mean too much air, can you change the vocal mode from the sigh/ breathy tone to more of a winge/ wining sound.
                          Do you know what I mean by vocal mode pedagogy? can you switch modes easelly when doing scales at around E4/ G4?

                          To be honest with you if those bits where OK, I think this song would be job done!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by New2 View Post
                            So I have had another look at your song (the 2017 one)
                            And hear are bits I really do not like and all from the chorus

                            or are we danceing
                            and im on my knees
                            will your system be alright

                            As I said before it dose sound like a lack of compression in your voice to be able to hit those E4/G4 notes; but maybe I could be wrong..read on.

                            !
                            I agree, I still can't reach the highest notes in this song correctly, I can't keep the vocal chords connected for whatever reason

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CosmicDolphin View Post

                              I agree, I still can't reach the highest notes in this song correctly,
                              I think this is a lack of muscular strength and training on those notes round and about G4 is the only way you will build muscular coordination.
                              You said you had lessons before, but did your teachers no train you to work on these note?

                              You dont need a teacher to build your voice hear. I can go one octave higher hear with out any problems so it is no a mission to mars for a male.

                              Try doing sirens as high as you can go and try and hold onto the top note as long as you can, use this pitch detector with your microphone as a guide to see what note you are actuly singing https://www.flutetunes.com/tuner/.

                              Try singing scales on these notes, or even better make your own up hear http://www.apronus.com/music/flashpiano.htm. Even still sing one of those high notes (for you) on its own as loud and as long as you can and keep changing the vocal modes and valves.

                              And as ever correct allinment and breath support is critical hear on the high notes.

                              Good luck!

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