Why do some Classically trained vocalists sometimes have trouble singing pop songs?

[DeepEnd]

Hi, I normally post in one of the guitar-related forums. Not trying to make a blanket statement but Saturday evening my wife and I listened to A Prairie Home Companion during a car trip and one of the guests was mezzo soprano Susan Graham. Her arias were lovely but when she tried singing a Buddy Holly tune it went downhill. I remember years ago when Pavarotti made a foray into pop and it also left something to be desired. I like Classical music although I'm not an opera fan so I'm not trying to take anything away from these fine, talented folks but I am curious.

[richardkim_co]

"Can't" is quite a strong statement.

Celine Dion was classically trained and she's had success in pop.

Freddy Mercury was classically trained and he's a legend.

Lady Gaga was classically trained and she's a pop icon.

 

I think however, you do raise an interesting point. I find that classical vocalists have a very difficult time adjusting to the "pop" style of today where the singing is very casual and more "fun". I'd probably cover my ears if I ever heard Pavarotti sing something like "Ain't No Mountain High Enough". It just wouldn't work.

[davie]

Classically-trained singers CAN sing pop vocals. Singers who have been singing only opera music for a long time are just too use to producing that type of sound. Technique may also be another factor. There isn't only one method that all classical singers use. There are actually many methods out there. Some methods tend to be more hard-wired to achieving that operatic sound, whereas some other methods will allow you to be more versatile. The more important thing however is to sing in the most natural way appropriate for your voice.

[AJ6stringsting]

LOL !!!!

[AJ6stringsting]

I've been playing guitar 36 years, been through the 1980's Shred / NeoClassical / Warp Speed guitar thing and when I play some basic R and R or Blues .... I've learned to play along with people and blend in ( not over play) and be a part of the band / music around me.

I love it when people humble me with more simple forms of music, make me a better musician in the long run

 

 

[DeepEnd]

There. I've edited the thread title to be more accurate.

 

Classically-trained singers CAN sing pop vocals. Singers who have been singing only opera music for a long time are just too use to producing that type of sound. . . . Some methods tend to be more hard-wired to achieving that operatic sound' date=' . . .[/quote']

I think that's probably it, some operatic types learn a style that just isn't conducive to pop songs. Back in 2011, we went to a local (St. Louis) 9/11 anniversary service and a local opera diva led us all in singing "He's Got The Whole World In His Hands." Her style just didn't match the song. Definitely not my cup of espresso.

[Chordptrn]

Nothing in Wikipedia stating Celine was classically trained. She does have a vocal coach but never trained classically prior to being a pop star at the age of 14.

[richardkim_co]

Nothing in Wikipedia stating Celine was classically trained. She does have a vocal coach but never trained classically prior to being a pop star at the age of 14.

 

Maybe I should use Wikipedia to do my research next time.

[davie]

Nothing in Wikipedia stating Celine was classically trained. She does have a vocal coach but never trained classically prior to being a pop star at the age of 14.

 

Celine Dion definitely had some classical training. The teacher who taught her is linked to the lineage of the Swedish/Italian school of singing. Not everything can be read online.

[Chordptrn]

Link please?

[richardkim_co]

Link please?

 

"Not everything can be read online"

 

In case you missed that.

 

If you listen to her voice, you can hear it. A classically trained vocalist sings by lifting their soft palette and maintaining and open throat. This creates a very distinctive sound, which when recorded, is easily identifiable as a classically trained voice.

[Chordptrn]

 

"Not everything can be read online"

 

In case you missed that.

 

If you listen to her voice, you can hear it. A classically trained vocalist sings by lifting their soft palette and maintaining and open throat. This creates a very distinctive sound, which when recorded, is easily identifiable as a classically trained voice.

 

No Links? Surprising that with all the information on the internet you can't find one article, interview, anything that provides the details of Celine's classical training?

I guess nobody is into Pat Benatar.

[PhilMoufarrege]

Hi' date=' I normally post in one of the guitar-related forums. Not trying to make a blanket statement but Saturday evening my wife and I listened to A Prairie Home Companion during a car trip and one of the guests was mezzo soprano Susan Graham. Her arias were lovely but when she tried singing a Buddy Holly tune it went downhill. I remember years ago when Pavarotti made a foray into pop and it also left something to be desired. I like Classical music although I'm not an opera fan so I'm not trying to take anything away from these fine, talented folks but I am curious.[/quote']

 

Because every style of music has a certain set of qualities that if you lack in your sound, will cause you to sound "inappropriate" in the genre, I deal with rock/metal singers all the time who lack the finesse and stylistic qualities to sing softer more ballad type songs because their priority for many years hasn't been to pay attention to delicate phrasing.

 

There are nuances and things that are needed in order to fit into the style you are trying to sing. That only comes by studying the style itself for years, hence why classical singers sound good in classical: they studied that style for years.

 

Technique doesn't mean you suddenly sound great stylistically, technique means you have the ability to use your voice without straining or rigidity, it means you now can explore your voice.

 

Basically, once you have good technique the game only just begins. Honing your voice to sound good in a particular style takes years of listening, singing and creating songs.

[onelife]

I worked on a project last week with an opera singer. This guy is world class...

 

[video=youtube;bDHciJqC6Ns]

 

… and he is my neighbour. We were on our way to work and he told me about this British rock singer he liked - Ian Gillan. During a break I played a bit of "Gethsemane (I Only Want to Say)" from the original recording of Jesus Christ Superstar. He walked into the room and said "here we go" at which point he let it rip matching Gillan note for note and scream for scream.

 

mmmm… gives me an idea for Halloween.

[PhilMoufarrege]

Awesome!!!

[HollyCR]

I was classically trained and specialised in Lieder and opera for years. While I was still at opera school, I was asked to sing in a rock band by the guitarist who thought I had "an amazing voice". I was a complete disaster. For all of the reasons stated in the previous posts.

 

Years later, I decided that I wanted to sing gospel music. And I do it quite well now - but it sure took a lot of readjustment, learning new ways to attack sound, how to get a 'rough' sound without my throat feeling like sandpaper the next morning and such. It also took me a good year to get the style to even minimally acceptable.

 

Skip 8 years ahead. The new project is Rock, Soul, R&B. Again, it took me months to reach acceptable and almost 2 years to give a performance I could be proud of. Same thing, readjust, learn how to make new sounds without damaging my voice, etc. (And yeah, Pat Benatar is amazing. And Bonnie Tyler? Although I believe she switched genres because of damaging her voice.)

 

And Pavarotti, Bocelli & Co.? Ever heard of the group 'Adoro'? (My stepson gave us a CD for Christmas one year. Probably thought it was 'age appropriate'.) Those guys are raking it in by singing popular songs in classical style. They have an audience that love just them (MY 96 year-old GRANDmother for example). I figure their versions are simply intended to sound like that. (Curls my toenails, too.)

[WRGKMC]

You do best what you do the most. If anything you have allot of untrained singers with unique voices doing pop stuff. This uniqueness often comes from abusing the voice because they were never properly taught to sing right. A well trained singer may know how to get that sound, including poor diction, poor pronunciation, poor projection, and overuse of guttural distortion to rock things up, but they may be less willing to abuse their voices that way because they know the long term side effects.

 

I'm a perfect example of this by the way. I have family members who have (had) fantastic voices and could sing all the stage, chorus and Broadway stuff to a T. I tried to match them and learned all the techniques but just didn't have that specialized ability. I was content that I excelled playing stringed instruments and learned to fake a good vocal part. In the process I probably did allot of damage to my voice singing through bad mics and PA rigs.

 

I think (know) I can get better tones then I ever have now. It seems it took my voice 25 years to deepen and not sound so nasal. I did have to work really hard however. I can tolerate what I do at least and not feel bad that I'm not as good as I wanted to be but there again, I can do it while smoking a guitar. Rarely do good singers excel playing an instrument at the same level as their singing. The ones that do often wind up being the exception and quite successful.