Is this too low?

[kickingtone]

I am sitting below C4, here, where I am most comfortable. Does it take anything away from the energy/intensity of the song?

 

I think the original is almost an octave higher.

 

http://soundcloud.com/kickingtone/our-last-summer-86l

[highmtn]

It kind of sounds dark the way you are singing it. If this is your best range to sing it in, you could brighten up the sound and make it less dark.

 

Smile and raise your cheeks, and bring a little bit of resonance into the front of your face. That's called "singing into the mask". See if that can brighten it up a bit.

[kickingtone]

Ha! Thanks, highmtm.

 

I tried the smiling experiment, but with a different tune, with appropriate lyrics..

 

http://soundcloud.com/kickingtone/sound-of-silence-44l

 

Then, with a smile..

 

http://soundcloud.com/kickingtone/sound-of-silence-46l

 

If I am not mistaken, it does sound brighter.

 

I think I actually like darker sound. My favourite singers tend to have darker voices (Our last summer is from ABBA, sung by Frida, who had that darker mezzo sound that I preferred to Agnetha's bright vocals.) I don't know if I've been overcooking it.

 

Question is, does a darker sound take away from the energy of the sound? I think it gives it a different type of energy, but I am curious what other people think.

 

I like that smiling tip. I'm off to practise some more..

 

 

 

[davie]

There's nothing wrong about the vocal range you're singing in. Similar to what highmtn mentioned, its more about the tone. It seems to be a bit lacking in higher overtones. No matter if you're a low voiced or high voiced singer, high overtones are really important and need to be present in the tone. They not only indicate balanced registration, but they also allow the voice to project properly. The "inward smile" definitely seems to work for you. Your voice instantly gained more presence from it. It's the lift in the cheeks and soft palate that add the extra resonance the voice needs.

[kickingtone]

There's nothing wrong about the vocal range you're singing in.

 

Glad to hear that.

 

It seems to be a bit lacking in higher overtones. No matter if you're a low voiced or high voiced singer, high overtones are really important and need to be present in the tone. They not only indicate balanced registration, but they also allow the voice to project properly. The "inward smile" definitely seems to work for you. Your voice instantly gained more presence from it. It's the lift in the cheeks and soft palate that add the extra resonance the voice needs.

 

Yeah, it's not that I can't produce the "brightness". It is more that I am not a fan of the "bright" sound. I am hearing a more crackly sound, not what I would have called brightness. Before I understood the term, I used to get it the wrong way round. Crackly meant dull, as in a roughened surface. So I have always aimed for the smoother, slightly hooty sound.

 

At least I am now clear on what "brightness" means and what I would have to do to produce it.

 

I'll have to sing in accompaniment with instruments, to see if I need to project more, and whether brightness is the way to do it.

 

[davie]

There's a general rule regarding internal hearing. Usually if your internal sound is harsh and "ugly", then your external (actual) sound has a good tone, whereas a nice and "pretty" internal sound produces a not-so-nice external sound. So Its better to rely on body sensation rather than sound, because internal hearing is very deceptive.

[kickingtone]

What matters is what the recording sounds like. That is not internal.

 

And it's just personal preference. Some people like edgy, "bright" sounds, some people prefer darker sound. There is no simple absolute, like "nice" or "ugly". Singing pedagogy is full of preference wars. You just have to remain confident in your own preference.

 

I rarely like edgy singing. It may increase the overtones, but I don't like the balance, particularly.

 

I did actually check the overtones of all three clips I have posted, so far, and the overtones in the edgy last clip are actually similar to those of the first clip. So, I am still not convinced that the overtones are lacking. The balance is somehow different.

 

I don't think we all even hear the same thing, physically. I know I am quite sensitive to high pitches. For example I can hear the high pitched sound of a 10 Mbps computer network. Some people cannot.

[kickingtone]

Our Last Summer

 

 

Sound of Silence without "smile"

 

 

Sound of silence with "smile"

 

 

I am not absolutely sure what to make of this (how important subtle changes to the spectrum may be), but the overtones in the first clip and more edgy sound of silence clip don't appear to be very different.

[davie]

I originally thought you were referring to the sound that you were hearing while you sing. But anyway I do agree, many people perceive sound in different ways and have their own preferences. Looking at your graphs, there are slightly more peaks especially in the 1-2khz range and the 4-10khz range seem to have greater magnitude. Overall its a subtle change, which is true, the audio wasn't dramatically different, since it was mostly a minor adjustment.

 

To be honest, I wouldn't try so hard to manipulate the tone to be a specific way. Instead, I would rather work on improving the efficiency of the voice to its potential, then you will discover how the voice should sound. Everyone's voice will sound different. Personally for me, my voice has a lot of edge to it, but I got use to it, because it naturally meant to be like that. A lot of singers, even some of the most successful ones, don't like the sound of their own voices, but its not really about the enjoyment of listening to yourself. Its more for other listeners. Even if you don't like your own sound, surely there will be plenty of people who would like it.

[kickingtone]

Thanks everyone, for taking the time to listen and comment. :-)

[kickingtone]

A lot of singers, even some of the most successful ones, don't like the sound of their own voices, but its not really about the enjoyment of listening to yourself. Its more for other listeners. Even if you don't like your own sound, surely there will be plenty of people who would like it.

 

Very interesting point. I have to admit, it is the other way round, for me. I want to be technically accurate with the more objective stuff-- i.e pitch, and volume (not getting drowned out). But all the subjective stuff, like interpretation, I kind of do for myself, and if a couple of other people appreciate it, too, that's a bonus. I am not very ambitious as far as performance is concerned. A selfish attitude, perhaps?

 

I don't think I am a performer at heart, which is what I think you are describing.

[kickingtone]

I don't think the pitch is too low for you. In the first sample your voice sounded quite weak, lacking in emotion and lyric interpretation and it wasn't 100% in tune in many places. In the next 2 samples the same applies, except it was sung in tune.

 

I am very interested in the pitch issues you are hearing. If you have some time, could you pinpoint which bits you say are flat/sharp or completely out? If there are too many to go through, can you just pick a few? Pitch accuracy is very important to me.

 

I feel you may be assisted by lowering your larynx a bit. Don't force it down hard, or down too much .... just do it gently. When you sing like that, it will feel more like the sound is coming from the back of your throat (what is happening is that your soft palate is slightly rising), and the combination of the raised soft palate and gently lowered larynx will (with practice) make your voice sound much bigger and stronger. This is the technique classical/opera singers use, but it can be applied to any type of singing. Just don't lower your larynx so much that word pronunciation becomes hard.

 

(Doesn't lowering the larynx darken the sound?)

 

As it stands, I don't feel anything in the throat area. It's all down in the abdomen, and, for the "smile" clip, some vibration in the front of the face.

 

I guess that is all individual, too.

 

But I am still very curious about "energy" and "emotion". It really reflects the soul, and we are all different. I am generally unmoved by rock music, for example! It lacks energy and emotion, for me! Really what is happening is that the type of energy I am looking for is different, not that rock lacks energy.

 

I think that changing your style of singing would involve changing your energy, because you have to tap in to a particular energy, in order to communicate effectively with it. I think it kind of changes who you are, which is probably why I leave "energy" and "emotion" as an interesting relative thing.

 

[highmtn]

The spectrographs, although not to be anything to stake your life on, are interesting. The "Singer's Formant" are frequencies which in classical voice circles are said to be a highly-desirable area of the voice for emphasis. Those sounds lie in the harmonics in the area of 1.5 hkz and above. Most notably, an increase in 2k, 2.5K, 3K are accentuated when a singer is getting this kind of resonance. You have a slight increase in this range in your spectrograph with the "smile". Your voice is dominant in the 240 hz and 500 hz areas, which is confirmed by listening and also by the graphs.

 

There is nothing wrong with having a darker tone if that is what you prefer.

 

Having a brighter tone helps a lot with pitch discernment and consequently, pitch accuracy. There is a greater tendency to sing flat or to be perceived by others as singing flat, when using darker tones.

 

Bob

[kickingtone]

Bob

 

I am wondering if you and davie are sometimes using edge or edginess interchangeably with brightness/overtones/ring/twang?

 

EDGE gives a note a well-defined centre.

 

Also it is one way of producing overtones. But it is not the only one, which is why I do not think the terms are interchangeable.

 

Clip #1 and #3 have similar spectra, but I have not tried to use edge for #1. The overtones are generated another way. The absence of edge does not always mean the lack of overtones. In fact, #1 is more pronounce in the 9kHz + area.

 

(I dnn't read too much into the spectrographs, but they can at least tell me which way I am heading).

 

For some people, EDGE carries much of the power and expression of singing. Lack of edge equates to weakness. The voice is used more like a saxophone. Perhaps, it is expression through power.

 

For other people, like me, it is the LACK of EDGE that carries the power and expression. The voice is used more like a violin. I see it as power through expression, which is what I look for in a good singer.

 

It is the flexibility in the balance of the note which gives inflection, expression and expressive power. You have to control the flexibility, not eliminate it. That is just my preference.

 

But the effect is lost on anyone not interpreting expression the same way.

 

LACK of EDGE makes a note potentially more unstable. You have to balance the overtones more individually, rather than dominating the note with EDGE.

 

And if the listener has a tendency to lock in at one frequency range, rather than the whole, the note can sound wrong. It is worse, if the listener has a tendency to switch focus, as in an optical illusion.

The effect can go away, if the listener is familiar with the song, as they have a reference point.

[kickingtone]

Here is how I make it brighter, without using edge. This is the direction I would take it, to make the sound more solid, but I need to take it slowly as I don't feel that my chest is fully engaged, or that I have enough control, here. However, the overtones are stronger (and I don't particularly like it, lol).

 

http://soundcloud.com/kickingtone/our-last-summer-2l

 

 

...compared to BEFORE...

 

[highmtn]

@kickingtone,

 

I prefer the tone on this most recent version, although it's a little rough, your vocal production is fuller, top to bottom, and it's closer to what I'm listening for. As I said before, if you prefer the tone of your original, that's OK. Difference in opinion is what makes the world go round.

 

You and I may not even share the same tastes in music, vocal style, etc. and that is totally fine. You're obviously knowledgeable about singing, acoustics, and styles and seem to know what it is that you want from your voice. I give hundreds of vocal evaluations and I listen to a lot of voices. You asked for feedback, so I'm happy to give you mine. I don't dislike your voice, and I respect your opinion. You may get entirely different feedback from others. Again, I don't mind that one bit.

 

Most of the singers I help are wanting a more pop, rock, country, modern, or R and B sound. That covers a lot of territory. What I have to say may not apply to where you want to go with your voice.

 

: ^ )

 

Best wishes!

 

 

Bob

[davie]

The latest recording, in my opinion, is a lot better. You're putting more energy in to it, though its a bit rough in some parts, the overall performance was more engaging to listen to. I noticed that you raised the pitch in this and that may have contributed to the changes. When you raise the pitch, you're accessing more of the head register, so those head overtones would definitely come out. Good work, its great to see that you're experimenting some more.

[kickingtone]

Bob

 

Thanks, again. I hear what you are saying. With your experience, you and davie are in a position to say how the majority of people will hear my singing, and also to advise on the options. If I were aiming to sing a particular genre, I would certainly junk my casual approach. As it is, I am creating a hotchpotch of my personal taste across all genres, which ends up as something unrecognizable smiley-lol

 

The great thing is that experts can still help and tell you, "This is the effect you are achieving, or this is how to achieve a particular effect".

 

I've been pleasantly surprised, more than anything, on the occasions when other people actually like my unrecognizable production.

 

The most bizarre thing happened a while back. I posted a clip, like the first one in this post, only even less bright and less full! A vocal coach assessed it, and I can still recall his description... "you sound as if you have just finished a very, very tiring workout!" smiley-lol

 

Now, just after you post on soundcloud, your clip is automatically at the top of the heap, and stays on the first page for a couple of minutes. I couldn't believe it when my clip got three likes. Yet, the vocal coach was absolutely correct, insofar as it was a good job soundcloud doesn't have a thumbs down option. Otherwise it would have been a very different story..

 

So, there's the dilemma. Do you sing for the majority of people, or do you sing for that minority who share your individualistic taste?

[kickingtone]

The latest recording, in my opinion, is a lot better. You're putting more energy in to it, though its a bit rough in some parts, the overall performance was more engaging to listen to. I noticed that you raised the pitch in this and that may have contributed to the changes. When you raise the pitch, you're accessing more of the head register, so those head overtones would definitely come out. Good work, its great to see that you're experimenting some more.

 

Whoops, tried to quote you and accidentally hit the unlike icon!

 

I though the clip was a bit bad, yesterday, but listening to it today, I think it's awful. smiley-lol

 

Yeah, I was only putting down a marker as a possible direction to go, but (being serious) it kills almost everything I am trying to do.

 

I somehow have to find out how to improve the projection of the voice without sacrificing my personal interpretation of the song. Good projection without sounding bold....hmmmmm......difficult.

 

It is my personal perception, but I have never heard anyone convey a sense of reminiscence in a bold style. Ironically, I am actually looking for a hint of vagueness in the tone, to make me believe it is all about the past. (Both songs, Our Last Summer and Sound of Silence are reflections on a particular event in the past. Ho hum... personal taste.

[highmtn]

Interesting perspective, @kickingtone.