Members Dthraco Posted August 13, 2009 Members Share Posted August 13, 2009 I watched this documentary last night. Anybody on here that loves music and playing it should really watch this thing. Amazing. http://www.hulu.com/watch/62945/before-the-music-dies It's 1.5hrs long. And basically it tells how the industry came to be like it is, and shows a few points on what's next. The video is from 2006...I just wish I would have seen it then. My perspective has changed on music because of this video. It has added some clarity to my direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kentrel Posted August 13, 2009 Members Share Posted August 13, 2009 This is not available in my country, but I found a working version on google video. Thanks for the heads up. Edit: Okay, I've just watched it and I'm disappointed that it turned out to be a bunch of middle aged and older people whinging about the state of the music industry. Like I haven't heard that before. I can see why people who believe that music is under some kind of threat to its quality and integrity because of the labels will agree with the movie, but I personally see that entire view as bull{censored}. Its no different than my parents, or even sadly, some of my friends who cry about how it was all better "back in the day". I pretty much had a rebuttal to each argument right the way through, and found some of their views to be insulting, and showing a kind of ignorance of music at large. Also, absolutely no mention of rap, which indicates the middle aged bias here. Sorry, I know some people don't consider that music, but love it, or hate it, it is, and there are a TON of talented black musicians who came from nothing and developed their own labels or deals with major labels and produced high quality music that fit all those "artistic" standards that each pretentious pro musician was whining about. The fact that professional musicians can't understand the reasons why millions of people buy music that lacks the finely crafted quality of their own work amazes me. I personally enjoy fine cuisine, but it doesn't make me cry about the state of food today when people go out and buy McDonalds. Hell, even I do that sometimes. Sometimes there's nothing better than being able to get the same great tasting cheeseburger from city to city, even if it is produced by some 17 year old who just started that morning. Why don't people just accept that millions of people like music thats cheesy, simplistic and commercially driven AND THATS OKAY, and that its not threatening good music, which is far more accessible and available now, in this age than it has been at any other time in history. The only point in the whole documentary that I agree with 100% is that when something new comes along, most people will probably hate it for 5 years, and eventually it will become a classic. There's more life to music than ever before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WinosaurJR Posted August 15, 2009 Members Share Posted August 15, 2009 Definetly going to watch this.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dthraco Posted August 17, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 17, 2009 Edit: Okay, I've just watched it and I'm disappointed that it turned out to be a bunch of middle aged and older people whinging about the state of the music industry. Like I haven't heard that before. I can see why people who believe that music is under some kind of threat to its quality and integrity because of the labels will agree with the movie, but I personally see that entire view as bull{censored}. Its no different than my parents, or even sadly, some of my friends who cry about how it was all better "back in the day". I pretty much had a rebuttal to each argument right the way through, and found some of their views to be insulting, and showing a kind of ignorance of music at large. Also, absolutely no mention of rap, which indicates the middle aged bias here. Sorry, I know some people don't consider that music, but love it, or hate it, it is, and there are a TON of talented black musicians who came from nothing and developed their own labels or deals with major labels and produced high quality music that fit all those "artistic" standards that each pretentious pro musician was whining about.The fact that professional musicians can't understand the reasons why millions of people buy music that lacks the finely crafted quality of their own work amazes me. I personally enjoy fine cuisine, but it doesn't make me cry about the state of food today when people go out and buy McDonalds. Hell, even I do that sometimes. Sometimes there's nothing better than being able to get the same great tasting cheeseburger from city to city, even if it is produced by some 17 year old who just started that morning. Why don't people just accept that millions of people like music thats cheesy, simplistic and commercially driven AND THATS OKAY, and that its not threatening good music, which is far more accessible and available now, in this age than it has been at any other time in history.The only point in the whole documentary that I agree with 100% is that when something new comes along, most people will probably hate it for 5 years, and eventually it will become a classic. There's more life to music than ever before. I heard the point to be more of how the industry is now more 'wall street' based. And because of that, the record companies and radio stations are more interested in making money than developing artists. Your argument is very valid. It is OK to have music that is cheesy and commercially driven. But at some point people do get sick of it. The problem is that truly gifted and talented musicians don't get a shot anymore, unless they are in their teens. That's why you hear so many "middle aged" people complaining about it. Most people don't even know who they are until they near 30. And once you know who you are, that frees you to develop yourself and set your natural talents free. Very few people are groomed from birth AND talented for what their parents are grooming them towards. Tiger Woods is an example of a golfer's son who was groomed to be an amazing golfer. Jack Johnson is an example of a guy who was groomed to be a pro surfer, like his dad, but ended up being a talented musician. The documentary touches on the fact that it's not enough to be talented anymore, you have to 'look' hollywood. Look at Stevie Ray Vaughan. No way that dude would get a record deal these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WinosaurJR Posted August 17, 2009 Members Share Posted August 17, 2009 Yep. I ain't looking for a record deal. If I put my music out there, the people that appreciate the music and not other superficial things will be fans. I want musical freedom and a loyal fanbase, so record deals aren't my thing. Even if I'm not rich, if my music is someday memorable and stands the test of time, what more do I want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted August 19, 2009 Members Share Posted August 19, 2009 I pay hardly any attention to music these days. I live almost entirely in the past these days because in my opinion, new commercial music is just boring. *shrug* The only modern current-day people I have any interest in these days are Coldplay, The Fleet Foxes, Elbow, Lisa Mitchell...and I'm not sure what else. Very few and far between in any case. I guess it IS a bit harder these days to be fully original and interesting when (a) a lot of it's already been done and how many times can one record the same thing with minute differences sufficient to make it interesting, and (b) the industry just sucks now. It's empty. I want my music to be heard simply because I love making it, not because I want it to be compared with any other current "talent". And that's not to say modern people aren't talented. A lot of them really are, but their potential is just not being fully realised. I especially hate it when industry types compare current artists with past ones. Like to say some new cheesy boy band has topped the record of CD sales because they've sold more than the Beatles. Hello? How can some one hit wonder band be compared to the BEATLES!? Back when the Beatles were at their peak, that little pipsqueak band people bleat about nowadays wouldn't even be HEARD. Things were so different back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WinosaurJR Posted August 19, 2009 Members Share Posted August 19, 2009 Well, Grace, if you look in certain forums, a lot of new independent bands and artists have emerged in the past few years and you could probably find their songs/album pretty easily. Remember, there's good and bad in every decade. I also agree with you that a lot of talented people opt to make not so innovative and timeless music, but rehashed "tv-dinner" kinds of albums. But I've searched online for new independent artists and bands, and I've found many who compare in some way to the great artists of yesterday and have integrity. Or, at least have the potential to make timeless music with soul. Just gotta look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted August 19, 2009 Members Share Posted August 19, 2009 Yep, very true. It annoys me that the people you don't HAVE to look for are the more boring lot. lol I've posted some samples of me singing in that thread about it hard to sing many words quickly, for your listening pleasure. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WinosaurJR Posted August 19, 2009 Members Share Posted August 19, 2009 Sweet. It IS pretty darn lame. Like "Before The Music Dies" says, the industry is looking for looks and the talent can be given artificially. Since I'm sure I don't have the looks and I'm not a very cool person by the mainstream standards, I'm more worried about making lasting music that people would want to see me play for as long as I can physically get up and play it. If I can't play, I'm as good as dead to myself. Speaking of looks, I might change my avatar. I think I have a picture of myself to use.. Hmm.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted August 19, 2009 Members Share Posted August 19, 2009 Yeah. I just have no interest in being popular. I mean, it'd be a pretty big buzz to have people actually LIKE my music and want to hear it and stuff, but beyond that...I just don't care about all that. The only other reason I'd want some form of popularity is to enable me to continue to make the music and not have to give it up through a total lack of time because I'm forced to make money by staying in my brain numbing office job, you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WinosaurJR Posted August 19, 2009 Members Share Posted August 19, 2009 Yeah. I just have no interest in being popular. I mean, it'd be a pretty big buzz to have people actually LIKE my music and want to hear it and stuff, but beyond that...I just don't care about all that. The only other reason I'd want some form of popularity is to enable me to continue to make the music and not have to give it up through a total lack of time because I'm forced to make money by staying in my brain numbing office job, you know? Well, I think I'll be able to sympthasize more now that I'm old enough to work. God, why do I have to work? I'd rather watch TV.. lol I'm usually the kid who gets picked on, so I'd rather not see the kinds of people who'd have picked on me liking my music. That'd be ironic.. Or girls coming after me because I'm a "musician", especially girls who wouldn't have given me the time of day had they met me before I started playing originals with a band. Those girls aren't worth my time or effort. Music is my girlfriend. I seem to be a very sensitive person, in the sense that small things really bother me and I can't shake it off. I'd even like to, but I just can't. I've pretty much been mentally warped somehow; I get nervous in crowds, and in general I'm a very paranoid person. Sometimes it really affects my life, and it may affect my performing. Hmm.. I have a lot of personal issues. :'( lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted August 19, 2009 Members Share Posted August 19, 2009 lol, meehh, we all do, us creative types. Don't worry. This is one of the ways you can express yourself openly and freely. I truly believe that if people didn't have music, there'd be a LOT more violence in the world. As far as performing goes...I think the only way you'd be able to relax enough to "get over" (not really, but push them to the side at least) those issues is to have enough confidence in yourself and your music so that you could believe that the people there to see you actually DO like your music (and who cares if they like YOU anyway? They don't even know you! They're just there for the music, and that's completely cool), and also, eventually if you can get yourself to a place where you're just totally immersed IN your music while you're performing, you know? So nothing / nobody else matters. And hey, I was a weirdo in school. Picked on by the snobby popular girls. Part of me would love to push it in their faces if I was ever successful at doing something I love. However, the majority of me simply has no interest in them now and what they think of me. If I was performing one day and saw one of them in the audience, I don't think I'd really feel much of anything except glad that people were actually there! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WinosaurJR Posted August 19, 2009 Members Share Posted August 19, 2009 I like your way of thinking. I won't care about any of my bullies if I ever accomplish anything. I don't need people knowing about me, I'd rather them know the music. I'm not a movie star, I make music. If god gave me a nice voice, it's because he gave me bad looks, as I heard a radio host say once. Anyways, I don't think it'll affect playing live, because as you said, most of the people going to the shows are probably not going to cause trouble, they're there for music and not out doing wrong. By the way, I'm listening to another song, and if you can be more aggressive in your singing, I think you'd be golden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted August 19, 2009 Members Share Posted August 19, 2009 Heheh, cool. Hey, who're you calling ugly? Is that you in your avatar pic? If so, you're SO not ugly, man!! You remind me of a more attractive-looking John Lennon crossed with a slight Daniel Johns (Australian band Silverchair lead man). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WinosaurJR Posted August 19, 2009 Members Share Posted August 19, 2009 Heh, thanks. I'm usually wearing glasses, too. So I guess I'd look a bit more like an attractive-looking John Lennon crossed with a slight Daniel Johns Australian band Silverchair lead man. ;p You're pretty, too. Anyone else wanna join in on this feel-good moment? lol Y'know, on another note, you should see me with my hair starting to grow out, I really do look like a beatle, in a bad way.. I really wanna grow my hair out to look more like a rocker, but I'm not sure how that'd turn out. I actually have a question about that to ask you, but I won't derail this thread, so I'll PM you. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dthraco Posted August 19, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 19, 2009 Heh, thanks. I'm usually wearing glasses, too. So I guess I'd look a bit more like an attractive-looking John Lennon crossed with a slight Daniel Johns Australian band Silverchair lead man. ;p You're pretty, too. Anyone else wanna join in on this feel-good moment? lol Y'know, on another note, you should see me with my hair starting to grow out, I really do look like a beatle, in a bad way.. I really wanna grow my hair out to look more like a rocker, but I'm not sure how that'd turn out. I actually have a question about that to ask you, but I won't derail this thread, so I'll PM you. lol Dude. Read this next part very carefully. Memorize it. People only pick on those who they think they can get a reaction from. It's a form of entertainment for them, and it makes them feel more secure because they think they are better than the person they are picking on. But, in fact, they are insecure themselves. EVERYONE is insecure in one way or another. The trick is to realize that insecurity is just a question on how one should be. There are no written rules on how to be a person. We all have to figure it out for ourselves. And some people never do. Sad really. You are pretty down on yourself in this thread. That's not ok. Treat yourself with more respect, you deserve that. Confidence in yourself is the #1 way to change your whole world. Girls will like you, people will like you. Confidence in yourself is universally attractive. No instrument or ability will trump self confidence. Sit down with yourself and accept you for who you are. You are the one who choses how you will live, how you will react, and how you will be treated by others. Some people are not worth the time and need to be avoided. Others are worth the time because they are positive and know themselves. But the bottom line is that you are unique, and if you just be yourself, you can be proud of who you are. If you make the choices that you know are right, you will be proud of who you are. At your age it's hard to understand what I am on the soapbox 'preaching' to you. But at your age I was in the same boat. Picked on at school, low self confidence. It took years to gain my self confidence, but once I figured it out, EVERYTHING changed for the better. Be proud of who you are, how you have made good choices and what you have done with the hand you were dealt. If you are not making good choices that you feel good about, start. If you make a bad choice, don't beat yourself up, learn from it and don't repeat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WinosaurJR Posted August 19, 2009 Members Share Posted August 19, 2009 Dude. Read this next part very carefully. Memorize it. : What you say makes absolute sense to me, and I know this. For some reason, to me, since I know I shouldn't care but I do, it seems like a mental defect. I have a small circle of 3 or 4 very close friends, who are all unsurprisingly 17 and 18 while I'm the youngest by far. They're all mature and know themselves, know me and like me for being the unique person I am, and I'm happy to be who I am. It's the hardest times in a person's life that make them who they are, anyway. I really need to be thinking harder about what you're saying. It's just that where I live, every kid knows everyone. At least, the immature ones who're into all of the macho guido things I can't stand. And so I guess I'm more of a loser to the majority. I don't think anything low of myself, I just think I have a mental issue or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dthraco Posted August 19, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 19, 2009 Let the macho guido's be themselves, and don't let it get you riled up. You are definitely not a loser to the majority. You are sitll in high school. Once you graduate it becomes much easier to choose the people you will have in your personal life. I'm not qualified to say you have a mental issue or not, but what you describe sounds alot like what we all go through at your age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WinosaurJR Posted August 19, 2009 Members Share Posted August 19, 2009 Meh, I guess, maybe it's just that I actually have these problems unlike a lot of kids my age, instead of saying that I have those problems yet I'm always out with people doing things. Kinda like a kid who says he isn't gonna take an unfair test, while the rest agree but secretly take it anyway. Well, I'll hush now, and I'll work to improve things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted August 20, 2009 Members Share Posted August 20, 2009 Hey, you know what…speaking of people thinking they’re not good looking, I used to be THE ugliest girl EVER. Seriously. I know I’m no oil painting now, but I’m ok (or I obviously wouldn’t have my photo up here). But from the age of about 11 to 15 or so, I was hideous. I’m not exaggerating. I looked like the character Screech from Saved By The Bell, if anyone remembers that show? (if not, look on Youtube or something for Screech. It’s not a pretty sight to behold, and it’s pretty vomit-worthy if you’re a girl and you resemble him, let me tell you! Lol) None of my current friends who didn’t know me back then even believe it’s actually me when they see old photos. It’s a fun game to get an old school photo and have friends try and identify me. They never can. They usually go for more attractive girls who vaguely resemble what I look like now. Whenever my best friend, with much glee, points out who I really was, they’re all disgusted and shocked. Lol. So anyway…because of how I looked, I was very withdrawn and shy (still am depending on the circumstances), I was told by various idiots at school that I looked like a boy (thanks for that. How exactly is that meant to benefit anyone, saying that to someone, you know?) and to add to that, I had frizzy hair, tiny eyes, a crooked neck and braces. Just a beautiful sight to behold, eh!? The moral of my somewhat sad story is that nowadays I’m ok with how I look. And you don’t have to wait till you’re 31 either, I’ve been fine with my looks (pretty much) since I was about 18. So try not to worry too much about ‘em, eh? You’re fine. I also have a tiny circle of friends…back when I was at school I had more friends who I saw everyday, whereas now I only really see them a few times a year, and only have one best friend who I keep in daily contact with. We’ve been best friends for over half our lives. But I never needed a whole heap of friends. If you’ve got TRUE friends, as you seem to, who needs all the rest of the superficial morons? They’re so closed minded they are too scared to open up and accept people they don’t find it immediately easy to understand. That’s all. They’ll learn (most of them) in time. So don’t even bother with them. Just tolerate them, as we all must do, and embrace those who accept you. Oh, and Dthraco is right. Confidence is the key to everything you feel you might lack. If you’re truly happy and confident within yourself and your life, nobody can touch you. Their actions, thoughts and words don’t matter anywhere near as much as they do if you’re not confident. Also, when you have confidence in yourself, you find it much easier to accept the truth that people who make negative comments designed to make you uncomfortable within yourself and to feel inferior next to them, they’re the ones lacking in confidence, because nobody who is truly confident feels the need to make remarks like that. Nobody who is truly happy in their own self and life has any judgements to make about other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dthraco Posted August 20, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 20, 2009 Also, when you have confidence in yourself, you find it much easier to accept the truth that people who make negative comments designed to make you uncomfortable within yourself and to feel inferior next to them, they’re the ones lacking in confidence, because nobody who is truly confident feels the need to make remarks like that. Nobody who is truly happy in their own self and life has any judgements to make about other people. Awesome, awesome, awesome. Now, if we could only have known that at Winosaur Jr's age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WinosaurJR Posted August 20, 2009 Members Share Posted August 20, 2009 Isn't that ironic? I never judge or feel the need to do that, which as you say would hint at self confidence, yet I still feel affected by people's remarks. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted August 21, 2009 Members Share Posted August 21, 2009 It’s cause you’re young and not stupid, sir. Young people are naturally more open minded and less judgemental unless they feel empty within themselves. Then they use the method of looking to others and making judgements to improve their own feelings of self worth. And see, you may well have adequate self esteem but be lacking in self confidence. Or the other way around perhaps. They’re not the same thing. Self confidence is more related to feeling you’re competent in something you can do or give to other people. Self esteem is more deep seated and related to how you feel about yourself in terms of whether you’re a decent person. Someone with high self esteem can have low self confidence if they don’t feel particularly talented at anything and have been put down by others, but at the same time have been loved and encouraged by loved ones and haven’t done anything really bad or regrettable in their life. Conversely, someone with low self esteem can have high self confidence if they’ve been pushed, just as an example, into learning stuff and being good at many things, but at the end of the day, they feel empty and are lacking in feelings of self worth as a person. Most people with any sort of issue in this regard fall into a bit of both categories. I definitely do. People with low self confidence but decent amounts of self esteem tend to not judge others (they don’t feel the need to deep down), but can still take others’ remarks to heart, as you do, as they don’t have the confidence in what they are able to offer / do for those others making the remarks, if that makes any sense? Also, the younger you are, the more you’re likely to let others’ opinions affect you. You typically, at a younger age, have less control over your life than you do as you get older and grow up more. For instance, if I get laughed at by a group of teenage school kids, what do I care? I don’t have to see them again, they won’t affect my general day-to-day level of happiness or prevent me from getting on with what I want to do, and so on. It simply doesn’t matter much, however at different stages in life and in different people’s lives, different peoples’ opinions will always still matter. For instance, if I got negative comments from my work colleagues, I’d be worried about it as that can affect my happiness. If I don’t enjoy coming to work because of whatever people are there, or if I lose my job because of something or other, you know? That sort of stuff. People say to never let what others say affect you, and that’s a good thing to try and live by generally, but it’s also impossible because unless you’re completely untouchable in a way that no other individual can ever affect your life and happiness, others’ opinions ARE going to affect you. You will care what your friends think, you will care what your boss thinks, and so on. I will care about this stuff until I’m rich enough and have enough true friends not to. And that’s ok. Lol. Blah, blah, psycho-babble. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WinosaurJR Posted August 21, 2009 Members Share Posted August 21, 2009 I read everything you say, and you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I'm nulling it over now, and I guess I lack quite a bit in both. I think I'm a worthy person, but my body physical acts weird in public social situations, like being on a bus, I get paranoid about who's looking at me and what they're thinking. I need to try to just chill the f*** out, y'know? lol I have to fight my body and my nervous ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grace_slick Posted August 21, 2009 Members Share Posted August 21, 2009 I'm a bit like that too at times. Sometimes when I'm walking down the street and for some reason feel that someone or people are looking at me, my legs feel all awkward and I feel like I look like I'm walking in a sort of weird, jerky way, which of course makes me even more self conscious. It's fun. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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