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harp mic?

kr236rk

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sunburstbasser Newbie

sunburstbasser

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Blues-iest would likely be something cheap that mostly works, ala those old 20s recordings.:thu:

 

I've seen one very good harpist use his SM57 for harp, and then another mic for his vocals. The natural color of the SM57 can make for a somewhat raw sound, but for blues (especially really old-style Blues) that may be what you want.

 

Every other one I've seen just used their vocal mic, though honestly I don't remember offhand what any of them had.

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kr236rk Newbie

kr236rk

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Blues-iest would likely be something cheap that mostly works, ala those old 20s recordings.
:thu:

I've seen one very good harpist use his SM57 for harp, and then another mic for his vocals. The natural color of the SM57 can make for a somewhat raw sound, but for blues (especially really old-style Blues) that may be what you want.


Every other one I've seen just used their vocal mic, though honestly I don't remember offhand what any of them had.

 

:) thought some wise guy was going to point me in the direction of a $200 Shure :lol: & sure they're great but the secret maybe as you suggest low tech/high impedence: i found a cheap plastic mic from Japan which was before great electronics starting coming out of that country, it is such a twee mic i thought it was dud, but i plugged it into the gain channel and turned it up full and suddenly it burst into life - sounding kinda funky - not going to blow the neighbours out of bed tonite - :cop: - can't wait to try it out with a harp tomorrow though! ;)

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kr236rk Newbie

kr236rk

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sm57 + some distortion. that's how I record it anyway and it sounds great.

 

looks to be custom made for the job ;)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shure_SM57

 

here's what i squeezed out of my high impedence mystery mic from Japan

 

under 'wailin'

 

http://www.box.net/files#/files/0/f/35048940/1/f_521921391

 

http://www.myspace.com/zoneroom

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sunburstbasser Newbie

sunburstbasser

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That isn't a bad blues harmonica sound. My thinking on blues is that it needs to be raw, and that sound is pretty raw without being nasty.

 

If you buy another mic, the SM57 sells for $99 on Musician's Friend brand new, and on Ebay you can get them even cheaper (a quick search shows a new one for $80). The SM57 isn't the best mic for a lot of things but they do work for pretty much anything. Unless you make a living as a professional harmonica player, you don't need a $200 Shure/Sennheiser/what have you.

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kr236rk Newbie

kr236rk

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That isn't a bad blues harmonica sound. My thinking on blues is that it needs to be raw, and that sound is pretty raw without being nasty.


If you buy another mic, the SM57 sells for $99 on Musician's Friend brand new, and on Ebay you can get them even cheaper (a quick search shows a new one for $80). The SM57 isn't the best mic for a lot of things but they do work for pretty much anything. Unless you make a living as a professional harmonica player, you don't need a $200 Shure/Sennheiser/what have you.

 

many thanks - the sound was more OTT than i anticipated because of course i was hearing the harp in real time as much as the amped version through phones, i will ease off a little compression next time. the good thing about high resolution mics is that you have to really hammer them sonically to get any decent sound out of them, and leads to some nice distortion. That mic was going through a full up Boss compressor into the gain channel of an amp, if i tried that with anything else electrical the result would be 'chaotic' to say the least :lol:

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rhat Newbie

rhat

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I get to play with a good number of harp players ,, to be real honest. The best sounding are the guys that use a SM58 straight through the board. The more {censored} they drag in like amps, and special mics etc ,,, typically the worse it sounds to me. Keep it simple

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pinkfloydcramer61 Newbie

pinkfloydcramer61

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If you want an overdriven Chicago blues-type sound go with the Shure 520D "bullet" mic, played through a small tube amp- or alternatively through a tube preamp, even a cheapie like the ART. If you want a clean sound, go with the SM 57/58 ala John Popper (Popper hates the sound of stock 520D's, so puts an SM58 element inside a 520D shell- so don't be fooled by concert pics).

 

Among the blues harp community, there seems to be a consensus that the later-year, Mexican-manufactured Shure 520DX's have inferior quality, inferior-sounding elements compared to the earlier 520D's (less hot, less bass response, therefore not as good for overdriving an amp). I had an old bullet-style Astatic JT-30 sitting around (non-working) and happened to run into a harp-tech at a vintage guitar shop who has a collection of old, vintage, 520D mic elements. He is putting one into my JT-30 shell for less than the cost of a new 520DX. Waiting for it to arrive anyday.

 

But I agree that the average player who just wants to incorporate a few harp solos into the setlist, needn't worry about all that. Still, if you want to get the sound of Blackfoot's "Train, Train", or Eurhythmics "Missionary Man", or sound like Magic Dick (J. Geils), you won't get there with a vocal mic.

 

My favorite harp player is Mark Ford- wicked, WICKED tone. Definitely overdriven, but the key to his sound is his vibrato. Which IMO is what seperates the men from the boys (I'm somewhere in the middle of puberty, as far as THAT goes:)).

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HarpNinjaMike Newbie

HarpNinjaMike

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There are many ways to tackle this. I personally use an Ultimate 57 from Greg Heumann at www.blowsmeaway.com. It has a built in volume control and is shorter than a stock 57. This will give you a full tonal range and some nice compression. However, it is not a typical harp sound. Other artists that use/d the 57 are guys like William Clarke and Jason Ricci. James Cotton frequently plays through the PA using a SM58, which has the same element, John Popper also use a 58.

 

So again, the 57 is a a nice mic for a full harmonica sound BUT isn't going to be as distorted/high gain as other mics.

 

Regarding "bullet" mics, everything new like the Green Bullet 520x, etc is pretty lame. They take dynamic elements, like in the 57 and put them in bullets. Historically, the benefit of bullet mics has been using a CR or CM element to create a hotter/more distorted tone. They also have a narrower frequency range which contributes to their unique sound.

 

I just got a Shure 440SL mic in trade for some old PA gear. It was still on the stand. This mic is from the early 60's and uses the same 99B86 element found in many green bullets. I am not tech savvy enough to remove the huge brass screw and install and switchcraft connector so it can be used with a harp amp. It would cost $35-60 to mod, but in the end the mic would be worth over $200. I am probably going to sell it for $125 as I have no need for it.

 

Going back to the OP, depending on your tonal needs, I'd suggest cupping something like the 57 if you're playing into the PA. With good hand technique and basic tongue blocking, you can get an awesome blues tone.

 

If you are going to plug into an amp, then I'd suggest at least looking into a CM or CR type mic as they will get you more dirt when used correctly. Other options work excellently with an amp but maybe not as dirty are things like the 57, Electro Voice RE 10, Shure 545, Shure PE...

 

I did a set with a pretty loud rock band last Friday and used one of their 58's cupped right into the board. If you leave the eq flat, and cup well, you can get a really solid sound! Truth be told, I prefer a clean mic under all circumstances. I use a VHT Special 6 with an Eminence Ramrod for my "small" dirty amp and a HarpGear HG 50 1210 (50w) for almost all gigs - which is punchy but not the single ended raunchy sound.

 

Without more info, I'll try to point out some audible references - anything by Little Walter is essentially a CR/CM mic into a small (less than 30w) tube amp, typically a single 6v6 type amp. I think on this clip, Cotton is playing a dynmic stick mic (like the 57) into the PA.

 

Oh yeah, Paul Butterfield used the Shure 545 most the time - very similar to a 57. His tone is dynamic mic into a blackface amp. One of my favorite sounds! Popper uses the 58 into a Mesa Boogie Lonestar with his default sound being a fairly clean 100w blackface-ish tone.

 

When you hear harp in rock, you usually have the sound of the harp player playing into a vocal mic on a stand (uncupped) like Dylan, Young, Tom Petty's harp player...Then you have the bullet mic and small amp cranked to the last inch of its life like Magic Dick, the guy on Train Train, etc.

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HarpNinjaMike Newbie

HarpNinjaMike

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If you're using a mic into some sort of preamp/recording device, then the 57 is a no brainer, IMO. There are several harp-specific preamps that work well plugging into a PA, computer, or recording device.

 

Check out the Harp Commander and Lone Wolf Harp Attack, for example. Personally, though, if I had to do a session with no amp, I'd probably get a POD HD. ;)

 

My main rig is a Samson Wireless into a Kinder AFB+ into a Line 6 M13 into the HG 50. With that I can go from Little Walter to John Popper at will, lol.

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daddymack Grand Master

daddymack

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See if you can find an early version (1960-1968) of the Shure PE54 or a 545 'pistol' mic. These can really scream with the right amp.

Also, rather than a SM57, I recommend you look for an old EV RE10 or RE 15...virtually indestructible with plenty of tone and response.

Also check out Kevin's harps aka kharp.com

In his accessories section, he has a number of new harp mics under $100.

 

I still occassionally use my early 70s PE585 Unisphere A for harp recording, as it has a better tonal dynamic (to my ear) than the SM57 (which I use to mic amps with). I am glad to see I am in good company ^

I started using it years ago because the cable it came with had a 1/4" plug...and it just 'burned' plugged into my Wollensak r2r tape recorder...

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