Members orbm1 Posted June 17, 2009 Members Share Posted June 17, 2009 Hi everybody: First post in this forum... I am planning to start practicing again sax... and I need an instrument... I have a friend that works at the distribution center for Wisemann instrument in Michigan and he told me he could hook me up with a new sax for a GREAT price.... now, my questions is, anybody knows anything about this instruments, good or bad? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orbm1 Posted June 18, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 BUMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sunburstbasser Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 Wisemann is a new one to me. From the descriptions online, they don't look like bad instruments. Do you remember enough about playing to play test it? Especially if you can compare it to some known brands like Yamaha or Selmer you can tell if its a decent horn for you. BTW, try sending a PM to Lambros. He is a sax player and knows far more about the instrument than I do, and can give you a better idea of what makes a good sax. There are some other sax players that don't frequent this forum, but have accounts. Hopefully a few will chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orbm1 Posted June 18, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 Thanks a lot!! Hopefully they are, that is the only instrument I could afford right now. I have conn sax but needs repair and I have been quoted for $400 to fix it. For a little more I could a get a wisemann brand new, and again, not because of retail prices, but because the hook up from my friend! We'll see. BTW how do I find a user? Can I search for user names? Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sunburstbasser Posted June 19, 2009 Members Share Posted June 19, 2009 Use the Memberlist link at top or find one of his posts using a search. Lambros has a few in this forum if you set it to display all threads; otherwise it'll cut out the older ones. good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orbm1 Posted June 20, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 20, 2009 Update: I went to the warehouse yesterday and I between buying these 2 saxs: This is the new beginner model, pretty basic, the link to the page is here, not a lot of description, but from what I saw, they look like good instruments, solid, heavy, smooth, the valves make good contact to all the holes, looks awesome for being a Chinese instrument... unfortunately, I do not remember enough to give it a try... they come with 90 day warranty... This is the second one I liked: Description page is here This one looks STUNNING in person... I got a nice catalog from them, with more info, but I do not know with these info I could make an appropriate decision... They have a few artists that endorse this brand, you can see them here 2 questions: based on the pictures, and descriptions, what do you think I should pay for them?.... I'll tell you how much he offered for each later, but I would like to hear your opinions... FYI, here is thecatalog , it is not the same I got, this one is more basic Thanks in advance... Omar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orbm1 Posted June 21, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 21, 2009 Sunday Bump! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hrnlip Posted June 21, 2009 Members Share Posted June 21, 2009 IMO and only MO I would stay away from brands made in China or India. True, the Chinese are getting better in their quality but are still nowhere near the known brands. You could get an excellent used intermediate student model for the same price, if not a little cheaper from a music store that rents instruments to school kids. It will be a name brand, working and repairable sax and it can always be sold at about the same price. Bought a practice/knock-around trumpet from a Chinese company and it didn't last the year. Made a lamp out of it! Some of the Asian companys use cheap discarded pot metal for their horns. Again OMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sunburstbasser Posted June 21, 2009 Members Share Posted June 21, 2009 The Chinese instruments are a bit hit-and-miss. Some are playable, student-level horns. Most are junk. Every Indian horn I've played is crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orbm1 Posted June 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 Thanks guys... I thought the same, but when I went I was surprised.... unfortunately 'cause I do not remenber how to play I could not give a judgement about sound quality.... but they look strudy and great... and when I mention about chinese, even Yamahas are built in china now... anyways.... because nobody mentioned a price.... The first one I was offered $395 out the door with a case and everything else...the second one for $503 out the door, with case mouthpiece, reeds, and everything else... should I jump into these, fix my conn (around $400-$500 to fix), or buy another brand??? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hrnlip Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 and when I mention about chinese, even Yamahas are built in china now... Not really! Some parts are manufactured for the big brands by certain companies in China, like, valve clusters, tuning slides, braces, etc..., but are all sent back to their native country for full assembly and testing. Yami's are assembled in Japan and America, Selmer, Leblanc, Bach, etc... are all 95% made in America.In my opinion, I would repair the Conn to specs and at least you know you have a good horn that you can later sell if you want to, for about the same price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orbm1 Posted June 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 Well I went to a store today and I asked to see the box from a yamaha sax I was thinking about, for my surprise, it said, parts made in japan, assembled in china!!! The salesman was speechless and embarrased, cause he was saying the same thing but the box did not lie, unfortunately he did not let me take a picture from the box so I could have hard evidence... Anyways, appreciate the feedback given so far, would like to hear more from you guys! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orbm1 Posted June 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 found this demo: [YOUTUBE]jhjXQ39VNRo[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sunburstbasser Posted June 23, 2009 Members Share Posted June 23, 2009 $500 for a full setup of reeds, case, mouthpiece and the like is a very good price, especially if it isn't a throw-away set of reeds. I'm sure the Wiseman isn't the best sax out there but for $500 it'll work. If getting the Conn fixed at the same price INCLUDES a good mouthpiece and reeds, I would suggest going that route. If not, get the Wisemann. For $500 it'll do well enough to get back into it, and if you really do start playing more you can drop the money on a great vintage Selmer or a new Yamaha or something like that when you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lambros Posted June 26, 2009 Members Share Posted June 26, 2009 Omar, this is the review I was telling you about. I can tell you from experience that having owned one of these "BIG" name cheapies for a few months about 20 years ago (it was a Chinese made Buffet alto) I would have rather gone the route of a vintage Conn. Ironically enough, I later opted to get a very Conn influenced late 70s Keilwerth alto which was then named the H. Couf Suberba I. Yes, it was a pro stencil horn and it was chosen over a Yamaha 62 and an even nicer silver early Mk VI. I wanted that Conn sound in a modern horn back then and have gone full circle ever since with an early 90s Yanagisawa (more in the vintage Selmer range but still uniquely its own sound). http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/Reviews/Saxes/Alto/Selmer_Prelude_AS700.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orbm1 Posted June 26, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 26, 2009 Omar, this is the review I was telling you about. I can tell you from experience that having owned one of these "BIG" name cheapies for a few months about 20 years ago (it was a Chinese made Buffet alto) I would have rather gone the route of a vintage Conn. Ironically enough, I later opted to get a very Conn influenced late 70s Keilwerth alto which was then named the H. Couf Suberba I. Yes, it was a pro stencil horn and it was chosen over a Yamaha 62 and an even nicer silver early Mk VI. I wanted that Conn sound in a modern horn back then and have gone full circle ever since with an early 90s Yanagisawa (more in the vintage Selmer range but still uniquely its own sound). http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/Reviews/Saxes/Alto/Selmer_Prelude_AS700.htm Lambros: Thanks a lot for your input... I actually found that same review doing my research about Wisemann sax.... Still, not sure if I should go that way.... anyways, I took the used old sax I have, it is a CONN alright, but it is made in Mexico.....mmmmm, is this one a fake???? I did not know they made some in Mexico.... the number in the backs says: N 41771 I am puzzled, maybe somebody can give me a little more insight about this sax. Also, it is in pretty rough shape... bad, needs padding, reattach a few keys (they are in the case) and a DEEP cleaning, I try to post pics later...right now, I have to go to work.... Thanks! Omar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lambros Posted June 27, 2009 Members Share Posted June 27, 2009 Omar, your horn is actually a real Conn made in Mexico in the early 70s and it should be a 16m. Check out this thread: http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=8454 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orbm1 Posted June 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 27, 2009 Omar, your horn is actually a real Conn made in Mexico in the early 70s and it should be a 16m. Check out this thread: http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=8454 So, should I repair it? is it worth it? because in thread you shared basically they say they are ok, but nobody will pay more than $200 for it, It will cost me $400- $500 to repair it, if not more.... What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sunburstbasser Posted June 27, 2009 Members Share Posted June 27, 2009 Well, you could go on Ebay, buy a 10 year old Yamaha, and get a very good instrument at that price. If they update the saxes like they do their trumpets, a model a few years old has little resale value for a nice instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lambros Posted July 6, 2009 Members Share Posted July 6, 2009 exactly...a yas-475 is a great deal to be had on the bay...btw the resale value of Yamaha saxes actually hold up rather well. Well, you could go on Ebay, buy a 10 year old Yamaha, and get a very good instrument at that price. If they update the saxes like they do their trumpets, a model a few years old has little resale value for a nice instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orbm1 Posted July 10, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 10, 2009 UPDATE: I traded a guitar with a guy for his Conn Alto sax. it has a few dings and dents, some rust but the pads are ok and was appraised by a local store for $300 - $400. the sax is at the shop, I am re-corcking the neck and fit a new mouthpiece and ligature, will post pics soon... Is there anyway to clean the sax and bring some of the shine, get rid of some of the rust and stickiness? Thanks! Omar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Robert Rowe Posted July 18, 2009 Members Share Posted July 18, 2009 Here's a few of my thoughts .... First-of-all, I have been playing and collecting horns and stringed-instruments for several decades. I do some repair work (originally, out of necessity ... now, also, to know more about vintage instruments). My former spouse was a certified band-instrument repair technician -- a graduate of the superb Red Wing Technical College (Minn), and a NAPBIRT member. I now have her tools and manuals, as she has moved-on to another industry. I attended several NAPBIRT (www.NAPBIRT.org) repair seminars / clinics, as a guest. The very "best-of-the-best" repair technicians and instructors were in attendance. The topic of Chinese instruments comes up frequently, at these seminars. Unanimously, the overall evaluation is that they are "junk". Many techs refuse to work on them. The instruments can damage or ruin repair tools and machinery. Why? Because the metallurgy is very sub-standard. There are far too many impurities in the alloys. Valve-pistons eventually seize in valve-casings ... woodwind rods and levers corrode &/or crack and split .... I witnessed a few "stress / failure" tests at the seminars. Various components from different suppliers and brands of music-instruments were subjected to extreme punishment on machine-shop equipment, until they failed or broke. In every instance, the parts and components from China were the first to fail. The veteran repair technicians told many "horror stories" of working with, and on, Chinese instruments. They all refuse to use even things like Chinese-made drill bits and blades. They are dangerous. Stories about drill-bits "exploding" (fragmenting) while performing routine repairs, etc. With wind-instruments, the brass-alloy used in the bell-section is very important. Bells are the "heart-and-soul" of the sound and the tone. With my horns (mostly vintage Martin Committees), I can tell you that the very best ones are from right after World War II. The tone is "different". Why? Because, for a while, the US Gov't released surplus military ordnance material to industry. Artillery-shell casings (empty, of course), ammunition casings .... Actually, research seems to indicate that spent ordnance (previously fired ammunition casings) that was recycled into brass-alloy stock, provides a superior tone, when used to fabricate music-instrument bells. Same as with the marvelous French Besson (Paris) horns, which utilized brass-alloy from empty 105mm artillery-shell casings that were laying around all over Western Europe, following both World Wars. There is much controversy about this. Some argue otherwise. All I know is this: I own and play enough of these vintage instruments to hear the difference. I have owned several modern examples (good ones, too) to compare to the vintage horns. I even bought Chinese (new)... still have. The Chinese horns have become almost unplayable, the older they become. Even with judicious lubrication, valve-pistons seem to "bind" in valve-casings. I suspect, without ample lubrication, the parts would "fuse". I strongly recommend avoiding Chinese instruments. Don't waste your money. Invest in a good vintage horn, and have a qualified repair-tech (look for the NAPBIRT certification proudly displayed in the shop) perform whatever maintenance is necessary. You won't be sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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