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Is Math Art?
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Is Math Art?
Originally Posted by Notes_Norton
I'm sorry for the rant, but death threats, hate mail, and hundreds of pizzas not picked up really irks me.
Originally Posted by Mossy Moss
I liked you better as your previous alt. Now you're just a giant walking vagina filled with sand and yeast.Tags: None

Maybe...That's what she said.
Soundclick
Originally Posted by LeftyTom
I wouldn't want to be in any woman who wants me in her.
Originally Posted by Brocktoon
[Baron85's nickname:] Mommy's Little Man
Originally Posted by dmn23
I may not know how to play it or program it, but it makes the "studio" look sufficiently enough like a spaceship that I feel my money was well spent.

No. Not in the creative sense. It can be described in mathematical expressions, given that someone would actually be compelled to do that, but everything can be reduced to numeric expression. Art is not described in the conventional sense as a work presaged by initial mathematical sketches prior to commitment to the final rendering.
To the bolded I say, perhaps, but what is important is understanding, which is not provided within works of mathematics or art in themselves. "2+2=4" Two what? We're both in base 10 right? There is interpretation needed beyond the mathematical expression, as there is with the artistic expression. This interpretation requires some frame of reference or it is all meaningless. Which makes me consider another overlap of characteristics that math and art share: their absolutely theoretical nature. A mathematician's expression assumes some "givens," and an artist's output assumes all of the biases of the artist. A mathematician is simply giving description to the natural world, except using axioms and logic. An artist is a little more emotionally based, but still is doing the same thing with sounds/colors/etc.
While using rational algebra to explain economics and arranging oil paints to look like humans are two totally different things, I don't believe the distinction between rational and emotional approaches are the endall to the essence of math and art, respectively. Creativity is not simply an emotional process, nor is formulating mathematics entirely rational. Of course, when a proof is completed, the math better be logical and correct, but we picture Einstein in front of a chalkboard for a reason: you can rewrite and erase on those, I'm sure the mind of Einstein made some mistakes. So it is creativity and intellect that are required by both forms, and though the outcomes of math and art are often fundamentally different, I think the distinction is blurred between the two when you consider how humans make them.
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I'm not convinced the question is so simple as Why vs. HowOriginally Posted by Notes_Norton
I'm sorry for the rant, but death threats, hate mail, and hundreds of pizzas not picked up really irks me.
Originally Posted by Mossy Moss
I liked you better as your previous alt. Now you're just a giant walking vagina filled with sand and yeast.
Comment

To the bolded I say, perhaps, but what is important is understanding, which is not provided within works of mathematics or art in themselves. "2+2=4" Two what? We're both in base 10 right? There is interpretation needed beyond the mathematical expression, as there is with the artistic expression. This interpretation requires some frame of reference or it is all meaningless. Which makes me consider another overlap of characteristics that math and art share: their absolutely theoretical nature. A mathematician's expression assumes some "givens," and an artist's output assumes all of the biases of the artist. A mathematician is simply giving description to the natural world, except using axioms and logic. An artist is a little more emotionally based, but still is doing the same thing with sounds/colors/etc.
While using rational algebra to explain economics and arranging oil paints to look like humans are two totally different things, I don't believe the distinction between rational and emotional approaches are the endall to the essence of math and art, respectively. Creativity is not simply an emotional process, nor is formulating mathematics entirely rational. Of course, when a proof is completed, the math better be logical and correct, but we picture Einstein in front of a chalkboard for a reason: you can rewrite and erase on those, I'm sure the mind of Einstein made some mistakes. So it is creativity and intellect that are required by both forms, and though the outcomes of math and art are often fundamentally different, I think the distinction is blurred between the two when you consider how humans make them.
I like this...thanksOriginally Posted by Notes_Norton
I'm sorry for the rant, but death threats, hate mail, and hundreds of pizzas not picked up really irks me.
Originally Posted by Mossy Moss
I liked you better as your previous alt. Now you're just a giant walking vagina filled with sand and yeast.
Comment

That's what I thought, it explains the art of the universe.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
What is art? The first definition I found was "The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination." Let's go with that, shall we? Now, what makes a painting of a tree art? There's a tree in my yard. Let's say I take a picture of it, so it is an exact replica. Is that art? Let's say I draw it as close to life like so that you think it's a picture. Is that art? Let's say I'm more abstract and draw something that resembles the tree. Is that art? Let's say I take a video of it and put music behind it. Is that art?
What makes all of the above art? It's the creative choices we make. Preferably those choices will reflect something about the artist or the world that he finds himself in. Does the exact number of possible choices have any play in whether or not the final work is art? If you have an instrument with only 2 notes on it can you still create music? Is that music a form of art? If you have a monotone drum and play it, is that art? Of course, the variation in time, speed, and dynamics, the chosen patterns and rhythms are all part of the artistic process.
It is a fools folly to think that mathematics is cut and dry; "One problem equals one solution". There are many ways of going about solving a pure mathematical problem. I'm going to be lenient and allow all closely related fields such as geometry, topography, statistics, etc. to be included here. When giving a simple geometric proof of some physical relationship, starting from a few axioms and finally arriving at the final Q.E.D., there are often numerous routes one can take. The creative process in choosing which route to take, the thrill of reading through a neverbefore used method, can be quite the experience.
As Bertrand Russell put it:
"Mathematics, rightly viewed, possesses not only truth, but supreme beauty...That's what she said.
Soundclick
Originally Posted by LeftyTom
I wouldn't want to be in any woman who wants me in her.
Originally Posted by Brocktoon
[Baron85's nickname:] Mommy's Little Man
Originally Posted by dmn23
I may not know how to play it or program it, but it makes the "studio" look sufficiently enough like a spaceship that I feel my money was well spent.
Comment

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
What is art? The first definition I found was "The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination." Let's go with that, shall we? Now, what makes a painting of a tree art? There's a tree in my yard. Let's say I take a picture of it, so it is an exact replica. Is that art? Let's say I draw it as close to life like so that you think it's a picture. Is that art? Let's say I'm more abstract and draw something that resembles the tree. Is that art? Let's say I take a video of it and put music behind it. Is that art?
What makes all of the above art? It's the creative choices we make. Preferably those choices will reflect something about the artist or the world that he finds himself in. Does the exact number of possible choices have any play in whether or not the final work is art? If you have an instrument with only 2 notes on it can you still create music? Is that music a form of art? If you have a monotone drum and play it, is that art? Of course, the variation in time, speed, and dynamics, the chosen patterns and rhythms are all part of the artistic process.
It is a fools folly to think that mathematics is cut and dry; "One problem equals one solution". There are many ways of going about solving a pure mathematical problem. I'm going to be lenient and allow all closely related fields such as geometry, topography, statistics, etc. to be included here. When giving a simple geometric proof of some physical relationship, starting from a few axioms and finally arriving at the final Q.E.D., there are often numerous routes one can take. The creative process in choosing which route to take, the thrill of reading through a neverbefore used method, can be quite the experience.
As Bertrand Russell put it:
"Mathematics, rightly viewed, possesses not only truth, but supreme beautyOriginally Posted by requiem156
I don't have to find something to dislike  it comes naturally.
Comment
I think it can demonstrate exceptional creativity, but I would not describe it as an art because of it isn't really expressive in the abstract. Make a list of adjectives that can apply to lit, painting, drama, theatre, dance, photography, etc., and the number that apply to equations would be a very narrow one.
There are no doubt highly rare examples that might be borderline art, though.
Nothing against the sciences; I feel the same way about cuisine, for example.
Comment
I think it can demonstrate exceptional creativity, but I would not describe it as an art because of it isn't really expressive in the abstract. Make a list of adjectives that can apply to lit, painting, drama, theatre, dance, photography, etc., and the number that apply to equations would be a very narrow one.
There are no doubt highly rare examples that might be borderline art, though.
Nothing against the sciences; I feel the same way about cuisine, for example.
This is where I was going with my question of "Does the exact number of possible choices have any play in whether or not the final work is art?" Just because the possible number of choices may be finite, doesn't disqualify a choice as being creative and artistic.
Besides, the majority of beauty in mathematics (at least as far as proofs are concerned) is derived from it's eloquence, it's simplicity, and ability to describe something very complicated as concisely as possible. It's mostly about what's not there on the page rather than what is. It's about what the mathematician didn't do as much as what he did.
Also, I would argue that you're limiting the medium by assuming it requires adjectives to properly describe it. Think of a Chess match. Each defense, each offense has a special name, it has a way it is usually played. A player is free to pick and choose between these, and to modify them at will. A well versed Chess theorist could go into great detail explaining the thought process of a game without the need of adjectives. Yet there still would be beauty and art in the formation of the player's strategy as described by the narrator....That's what she said.
Soundclick
Originally Posted by LeftyTom
I wouldn't want to be in any woman who wants me in her.
Originally Posted by Brocktoon
[Baron85's nickname:] Mommy's Little Man
Originally Posted by dmn23
I may not know how to play it or program it, but it makes the "studio" look sufficiently enough like a spaceship that I feel my money was well spent.
Comment
This is where I was going with my question of "Does the exact number of possible choices have any play in whether or not the final work is art?" Just because the possible number of choices may be finite, doesn't disqualify a choice as being creative and artistic.
Besides, the majority of beauty in mathematics (at least as far as proofs are concerned) is derived from it's eloquence, it's simplicity, and ability to describe something very complicated as concisely as possible. It's mostly about what's not there on the page rather than what is. It's about what the mathematician didn't do as much as what he did.
Also, I would argue that you're limiting the medium by assuming it requires adjectives to properly describe it. Think of a Chess match. Each defense, each offense has a special name, it has a way it is usually played. A player is free to pick and choose between these, and to modify them at will. A well versed Chess theorist could go into great detail explaining the thought process of a game without the need of adjectives. Yet there still would be beauty and art in the formation of the player's strategy as described by the narrator.
Yeah, I am not using a broad definition, but I don't feel that a broad definition is really appropriate. Most things can be highly artistic, elegant, creative when executed at the highest level, whether it's boxing, flyfishing, cooking, generalship, paddling, pool, outfielding, bartending, etc.
I don't think that those are forms of art either, just that they can share characteristics with art. I don't regard this distinction as one of value or of quality, just as a distinction.
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