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Is 4/4 time and 8/8 time the same thing?

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  • Is 4/4 time and 8/8 time the same thing?

    I don't know. 

     

    I can play in "less usual" time signatures as well, but I don't know what they're called or how to work out what time signature it is.

     

     

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  • #2

    8/8?  I'm no expert on time signatures, but I don't recall 8/8.  If I work it out I just count how many beats there are before the riff/phrase/chord progression repeats itself.

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    • #3

      Aside from the notation expansion, technically speaking, no. Depending on the application - the 8 count can lend a very different feel and necessarily different phrasing than a 4 count.

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      • bildo
        bildo commented
        Editing a comment

        1001gear is right.

         

        look at it like this.

        4/4 strumed in 8ths like a folk guitar deal. up/down/up/down Still 8 beats

        Now

         

        8/8 strumed like you would on the down beats. Eight down strums. Still eight beats as above, but a very different feeling.

         


    • #4

      I can't really think of a situation where I'd prefer to count in 8/8 instead of 4/4. Perhaps it's useful to describe the music having a double-time feel, but then I'd prefer to just think in terms of "4/4 with a double-time feel."

      It's very different to me from the difference between 3/4 and 6/8, which are distinctly different: 3/4 describes a three-beat pulse (that can be subdivided into 3 groups of 2 eighths each, 3 groups of triplets each, 3 groups of 4 sixteenths each, etc) while 6/8 essentially describes a two-beat pulse with each subdivided into 3 eigths, but where the whole measure can easily be substituted for a 2/4 rhytm as well, thus creating your basic polyrhythm.

      What do you mean by "less usual" rhythms? Irregular stuff, like 5/8 and 7/8 perhaps? Pretty much every complex, irregular measure can be subdivided into groups of 2s and 3s. For example, a 5/8 can be counted as either 1 2 1 2 3 or 1 2 3 1 2 (accents are bold), a 7/8 can be counted as 1 2 1 2 1 2 3, 1 2 3 1 2 1 2, or 1 2 1 2 3 1 2, etc (you could descibe any kind of complex measure like this).

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      • Dougy
        Dougy commented
        Editing a comment

        Phlat Phive wrote:

        What do you mean by "less usual" rhythms? Irregular stuff, like 5/8 and 7/8 perhaps? Pretty much every complex, irregular measure can be subdivided into groups of 2s and 3s. For example, a 5/8 can be counted as either 1 2 1 2 3 or 1 2 3 1 2 (accents are bold), a 7/8 can be counted as 1 2 1 2 1 2 3, 1 2 3 1 2 1 2, or 1 2 1 2 3 1 2, etc (you could descibe any kind of complex measure like this).


         

        Yes, I think so. I guess this is what studying music theory helps with. As someone mentioned before, I just try and count the beats in each riff before it repeats.

         

        Phlat Phive wrote:

        Pretty much every complex, irregular measure can be subdivided into groups of 2s and 3s. For example, a 5/8 can be counted as either 1 2 1 2 3 or 1 2 3 1 2 (accents are bold), a 7/8 can be counted as 1 2 1 2 1 2 3, 1 2 3 1 2 1 2, or 1 2 1 2 3 1 2, etc (you could descibe any kind of complex measure like this).

         

        I try and do that, but if I conciously try and count whilst playing it puts me off; I suppose now I've got this Zoom R16 it'll be much easier for me to record stuff and count it later. Sometimes I write a riff in 4/4 and then add an extra note. Then I usually get wrong off the drummer.


    • #5

      Dougy, it seems you have a problem not with how to count or feel different time sigs, but in CHOOSING a time sig. And it's a common problem. 4/4 and 8/8 are kinda the same thing, but their useage on the page are used to covey different feels....and 8/8 is as rare as hens teeth, but I'm sure is used somewhere.

       

      For example 6/8 vs 12/8 vs 3/4.   Some may notate 12/8 to covey the backbeat on every other triplet (123, 456,789, 10 11 12) or they might notate it as 6/8 to get the grouping cut in half cuz the 8th note tempo is slow. Or they might put it in either one based on the subdivisions in the melody (or whatever) to make it easier to read.

       

      So in that case, the decison is based on how to make it easiest to read based on what the best way is ON PAPER to covey the feel.

       

      And in your example, just cuz you are playing eighth notes, doesn't mean you aren't playing in 4/4.

      "Be regular and orderly in your life so that you may be violent and original in your work" - Gustave Flaubert

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      • Phlat Phive
        Phlat Phive commented
        Editing a comment

        3shiftgtr wrote:

        And in your example, just cuz you are playing eighth notes, doesn't mean you aren't playing in 4/4.


        ^^ I couldn't agree more.


      • Dougy
        Dougy commented
        Editing a comment

        3shiftgtr wrote:

        Dougy, it seems you have a problem not with how to count or feel different time sigs, but in CHOOSING a time sig. 


         

        That's what the other guys in the band think as well... personally I don't see why a song shouldn't be in three different time signatures.

         

        3shiftgtr wrote:

        Dougy, it seems you have a problem not with how to count or feel different time sigs, but in CHOOSING a time sig. And it's a common problem. 4/4 and 8/8 are kinda the same thing, but their useage on the page are used to covey different feels....and 8/8 is as rare as hens teeth, but I'm sure is used somewhere.

        For example 6/8 vs 12/8 vs 3/4.   Some may notate 12/8 to covey the backbeat on every other triplet (123, 456,789, 10 11 12) or they might notate it as 6/8 to get the grouping cut in half cuz the 8th note tempo is slow. Or they might put it in either one based on the subdivisions in the melody (or whatever) to make it easier to read.

        So in that case, the decison is based on how to make it easiest to read based on what the best way is ON PAPER to covey the feel.

         

        You need to keep it simple, I'm not even Grade 1 on the guitar!!!  

        Seriously though, I think I get what you mean, but I'm not intending on writing any of it down. I just play it to the band and shout at them until they get it right. 



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