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Pretty good article about what could be done about gun violence.

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  • Pretty good article about what could be done about gun violence.

    This piece makes some very good points and at least can most likely actually get accomplished. Anybody with half a brain knows there will be no new AWB with a repub controlled congress same it seems with UBCs. So to me it's a no brainer to try this again as it seems to have worked in the past.

    "There is a realistic bipartisan solution for gun violence

    But what if there's a way to reduce gun violence that could muster bipartisan support? A plan where actual gun control legislation is taken out of the equation and we focus on other ways to get the job done?
    We have answers to those questions because two recent presidents, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, gave us the answers. And those answers were really good.
    Gun violence fell in the Clinton years and it wasn't the Brady Bill or the Assault Weapons Ban that made the real difference. It was the increased funding to police departments and the boosted number of cops on the streets from his 1994 crime bill that made the real progress."
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnb...ommentary.html
    Last edited by NOS68; 11-09-2017, 01:38 PM.

  • #2
    I would support more money for better policing. Not just for more cops and the latest and greatest in tactical military gear. But I don't see how having more cops on the street would help with mass shootings by whackos. That is unless you want armed guards on every block and at every church and Starbucks. Even then you havnt stopped anything other than as a questionable deterrent.

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    • #3
      La-la-la-la-la...Second Amendment(gun industry)...la-la-la-la-la...
      Last edited by Hoot Owl; 11-09-2017, 03:53 PM.
      George Washington was the man who never told a lie. Richard Nixon was the man who never told the truth. Donald Trump is the man who doesn't know the difference.
      Venezuela is what happens when you have Trump without the Madison.

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      • #4
        Throwing money at police departments will not work. All that would accomplish would be to give cops bigger toys (urban assault vehicles, etc).

        The money has to be accompanied by a fundamental change in approach. Community policing, gun trafficking undercover operations, and less of a focus on petty drug offenses.

        It want to reduce drug related gun crime, police should be working on busting the suppliers, traffickers, money laundered and the "muscle".

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Pine Apple Slim View Post
          I would support more money for better policing. Not just for more cops and the latest and greatest in tactical military gear. But I don't see how having more cops on the street would help with mass shootings by whackos. That is unless you want armed guards on every block and at every church and Starbucks. Even then you havnt stopped anything other than as a questionable deterrent.
          No it likely wouldn't impact mass shootings the article is referring to overall gun violence.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by BA.Barcolounger View Post
            Throwing money at police departments will not work. All that would accomplish would be to give cops bigger toys (urban assault vehicles, etc).

            The money has to be accompanied by a fundamental change in approach. Community policing, gun trafficking undercover operations, and less of a focus on petty drug offenses.

            It want to reduce drug related gun crime, police should be working on busting the suppliers, traffickers, money laundered and the "muscle".
            Guess you didn't read the article or missed this part....

            "That fact has been proven many times in the years since, most prominently by an analysis published by the Washington Post in 2015. Just to summarize what happened, in October 1994 President Clinton was joined by an army of police chiefs and mayors on the White House lawn to announce the $200 million in funds being released to put 100,000 more cops on the streets. It wasn't just the boosted numbers of police but also the message that resonated. And that message was that guns or legal gun owners weren't the problem, but the fact that the police didn't have the numbers or the tools to stop the violence committed by criminals with guns.

            President George W. Bush, saw similar successes with his Project Safe Neighborhoods program to focus on gang-connected gun violence, black market gun runners, and other gun crimes. Project SAFE got more than $1.5 billion from the Bush administration. And violent crime fell sharply during the Bush years, even when compared with the already falling crime numbers under President Clinton. Also, note that the focus wasn't on making new rules about what guns were or were not legal. It was all about crime prevention."

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            • #7
              So, according to the article, turning us into police state would be the solution? The reality is that as long as we have over 500,000,000 guns in a country of over 300,000,000 people with access to an unlimited supply of new guns and ammunition, gun violence will continue.

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              • #8
                The increase of money spent on law enforcement in the 90s help. Some of that also coincided with an aging population as boomers were getting out of their prime crime-committing years.

                I’ll support more money spent on law enforcement but I wonder if we’d seen the same results today as this youngest generation coming up is the biggest of all.
                ______________

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                • #9
                  I doubt an authoritarian militaristic approach is going to turn anything around. Another smokescreen to distract from the fact that loonies are buying guns every day, and they will use them on the public at some time.

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                  • #10
                    The decline in crime in the late 90s through the aughts can be directly attributed to the implementation of the CCH (computerized criminal history) and III (interstate identification index). These systems allow for nearly instant identification of suspects in custody.

                    Before these systems existed a wanted murderer in New York, could get arrested in Colorado for drunk driving, give a fake name, post bail and be 2 states away by the time the PD gets his fingerprint card back in the mail.

                    These systems increased case closure rates and took repeat offenders off the streets.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BadDaddy View Post
                      So, according to the article, turning us into police state would be the solution? The reality is that as long as we have over 500,000,000 guns in a country of over 300,000,000 people with access to an unlimited supply of new guns and ammunition, gun violence will continue.
                      As long as we have people acting selfish and sinful, not raising their children in uprightness, or not even caring for them expecting the government to be the absent father to supply all their needs, then we will have the violence in all forms.
                      I never saw a gun turn a person into an evil self centered being willing to kill others to get what they want.
                      Last edited by LARRY L; 11-09-2017, 05:26 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BA.Barcolounger View Post
                        The decline in crime in the late 90s through the aughts can be directly attributed to the implementation of the CCH (computerized criminal history) and III (interstate identification index). These systems allow for nearly instant identification of suspects in custody.

                        Before these systems existed a wanted murderer in New York, could get arrested in Colorado for drunk driving, give a fake name, post bail and be 2 states away by the time the PD gets his fingerprint card back in the mail.

                        These systems increased case closure rates and took repeat offenders off the streets.
                        roe v. wade probably played a pretty big part too.
                        {O,O}
                        (__(\
                        " "

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by LARRY L View Post
                          As long as we have people acting selfish and sinful, not raising their children in uprightness, or not even caring for them expecting the government to be the absent father to supply all their needs, then we will have the violence in all forms.
                          I never saw a gun turn a person into an evil self centered being willing to kill others to get what they want.
                          Something happened in this country starting on 9/11. The populace has become more fragmented and angry. I'm not sure what has brought this about but it is so easy to see. The election of Trump was an example of this. The mentally unstable have been resorting to more violent means of showing their anger with mass violence and shootings. As stated, even before 9/11 families have been disentigrating. How many on this board have been divorced? Compare that figure to 50-60 years ago. Things are starting to fall down and I don't think there is no stopping it. I believe things, such as mass shootings will become worse and maybe much worse. It hasn't reached it tipping point yet, that could be a while. Guns are not the immediate problem and the real problem, like I said, has to somehow take care of itself and that takes time. JMHO YMMV

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Telecruiser View Post

                            Something happened in this country starting on 9/11. The populace has become more fragmented and angry. I'm not sure what has brought this about but it is so easy to see. The election of Trump was an example of this. The mentally unstable have been resorting to more violent means of showing their anger with mass violence and shootings. As stated, even before 9/11 families have been disentigrating. How many on this board have been divorced? Compare that figure to 50-60 years ago. Things are starting to fall down and I don't think there is no stopping it. I believe things, such as mass shootings will become worse and maybe much worse. It hasn't reached it tipping point yet, that could be a while. Guns are not the immediate problem and the real problem, like I said, has to somehow take care of itself and that takes time. JMHO YMMV
                            If we look at the 300 million+ people in the US, we are not very likely of being shot in a mass killing, I would guess it is still like being struck by lightning. Not to downplay the horrific acts, but we must look at it in a rational way without all the emo hype that only causes more division and factions.

                            I agree, there is hardness in many people that divides our culture. If you grow up without learning the discipline of practicing being civil even when you disagree, along with being patient with people and your desires, you end up with people acting like two year olds. "I Want it. and I Want it NOW!" seems to me how many are saying and acting on. Look at this across the board, with the credit card debt, sex without a real commitment, obesity, desire high pay without skills that match the pay, addictions,,,the list goes on and on. Having self control and saying no to our now immediate wants is something you either learn when young or your do not learn it.

                            I am not sure how this can fix itself without a change in the culture concerning marriage and family. Just look at the stats of children raised without a father and his love.


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                            • Hoot Owl
                              Hoot Owl commented
                              Editing a comment
                              "emo" hype? What does that mean?

                          • #15
                            Originally posted by BA.Barcolounger View Post
                            The decline in crime in the late 90s through the aughts can be directly attributed to the implementation of the CCH (computerized criminal history) and III (interstate identification index). These systems allow for nearly instant identification of suspects in custody.

                            Before these systems existed a wanted murderer in New York, could get arrested in Colorado for drunk driving, give a fake name, post bail and be 2 states away by the time the PD gets his fingerprint card back in the mail.

                            These systems increased case closure rates and took repeat offenders off the streets.
                            The downfall of cocaine empires played a big part too. Coke ruled the streets at one point. It was a scourge that ran through many segments of society. Being black market, it brought crime. That's faded away.

                            Long-term, violent crime is down.

                            And that comes at a time when more and more people are crowded closer and closer together while real incomes are stagnant for most people.
                            Last edited by Hoot Owl; 11-10-2017, 12:49 PM.
                            George Washington was the man who never told a lie. Richard Nixon was the man who never told the truth. Donald Trump is the man who doesn't know the difference.
                            Venezuela is what happens when you have Trump without the Madison.

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