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  • The Me Too ists.

    Let us agree on a few things:
    1. Some men are swines who think with their gonads. They think they're God's gift to womankind, and must therefore inflict that ''gift'' as often as possible.
    2. Some women have been victims of such men in various ways, ranging from wolf-whistles to crude suggestions to having their anatomy grabbed, or in some instances, full-on rape.
    3. Some boys and men have been subjected to the same kinds of treatment by gay men who think they're God's gift to anybody they can [BLEEP].
    4. And many of those sexually abusive men think they've gotten away with it until some woman gets the courage to speak up and put blame where it is due.
    Okay, them's some facts. Now for the problem: Complaints of sexual abuse and ''causing a toxic workplace'' are easy enough to make, but often nearly impossible to disprove.

    Mind you, some kinds of sexual abuse leaves evidence, ranging from pictures of Anthony's Wiener to bruises, more severe injuries and even death, along with semen-soaked garments and other physical signs of sexual violence. In other words, the kind of things one can take to court. Assuming, of course, that the evidence is collected and saved for analysis and trial.

    Unfortunately, other kinds of bad behaviour are more difficult to prove, such as sexually suggestive comments, comments suggesting sex, groping, grabbing, etc. Even accusations of ''non-consensual sex'' are hard to prove if the victim had been out ''partying'' or had been ''invited'' someplace on the pretense of, say, money, a job or whatever. Here again, most of what has been charged probably did happen and the offender should be held accountable. If it actually happened.

    What bothers and confuses me is the ''Me, Too!'' crowd who come out of the woodwork once one woman has spoken up. Often these charges are years or decades old, there is no remaining evidence and the accused is an old man being taken to task for something that may or may not have happened 40 or 50 years ago. What's even worse is the appearance of ''piling on,'' adding one's voice to a growing number of accusations not because an assault took place, but because the alleged victim wants some notoriety. Or worse, revenge for something else that had nothing to do with sexual assault or misbehaviour. As for example a woman who didn't get the job, or was ignored by the person she accuses. Or any of a jillion other ''reasons'' for seeking ''revenge'' by smearing someone's reputation.

    For the accused, this is a nightmare. Even if the charges are proved spurious, the accusation still stands. Worse, the initial story is the one that grabs public attention and everything that comes later is either ''old news'' or ''fake news'' or simply buried in the legal notices page. Thus, the man who is accused of sexual misconduct is ''tried'' and ''convicted'' in the court of public opinion and no amount of later, more reliable evidence can ever change peoples' minds. No trial verdict can change public opinion, no later evidence can do it, nor can a successful slander suit if the woman is proved a liar. It's ''she said,'' ''he said,'' and in today's society, he's [BLEEP]ed, whether he's guilty or not.

    That is why one should listen to the ''Me, Too!'' people, and even the original complainants, with a bit of skepticism. Some of them may be dredging up old memories that are faulty or half-forgotten dreams. Others are things remembered wrong, or even false memories ''created'' in therapy sessions, etc. by the kind of questions-and-answers logic that grabs a kernel of truth, then spins it way out of control. Or a suggestion that was unknowingly planted in the victim's mind without the fact having ever exist. The ''Scientific American Frontiers'' program on PBS has shown how easily that can happen and how hard it is to eliminate.

    Then of course there are the malicious accusations made for personal reasons, among them revenge or disappointment. Those, too, can be all to readily believed when first presented, and all but impossible to disprove, let alone get out of the court of public opinion once made. As with mistakes in newspaper articles, the errors are spread all over the front page; the retractions are buried deep inside the paper, or as a brief ''oops!'' at the end of a broadcast weeks later.

    So next time you hear of some famous person being accused of sexual misconduct decades after the original [alleged] incident, try to remain objective and wait for further proof and corroboration. The current lynch mob mentality may well ruin an innocent person's career. Unless he has the decency to admit it, of course.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________
    How Come Other People Can Get Away With Jokes Like That?

    Face it Tea Bagging Neo-Cons...if Reagan ran today, you'd be calling him a RINO socialist! -- scott666

    Barack Obama must be kenyan - everytime he speaks they trot a translator out the next day to explain what he said.-- ToBeAnnounced

    And even then some people still don't understand.-- RogueGnome

  • #2
    glad im not famous

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by moogerfooger View Post
      glad im not famous
      Not being famous won't save you. These days, if you even look at some people the wrong way,
      they'll be in the boss's office complaining about you so fast, you won't know what happened.
      Then, because the boss believes whatever fantastic she tells, he won't bother even listening to
      you; all he needs you for is to have a body for the execution. You'll be out on the street in an
      instant, facts and evidence be damned.
      __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________
      How Come Other People Can Get Away With Jokes Like That?

      Face it Tea Bagging Neo-Cons...if Reagan ran today, you'd be calling him a RINO socialist! -- scott666

      Barack Obama must be kenyan - everytime he speaks they trot a translator out the next day to explain what he said.-- ToBeAnnounced

      And even then some people still don't understand.-- RogueGnome

      Comment


      • #4
        Douchebag guys have made it way harder for normal people to engage in flirting or asking someone out that they like.
        Last edited by SexWithRobots; 11-06-2017, 10:22 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          The eagerness of some to take these accusations ‘with a grain of salt’ and the possible professional and personal consequences of stepping forward are big parts of the reason many women remain silent until they feel the security of numbers.
          x

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by slodge View Post
            The eagerness of some to take these accusations ‘with a grain of salt’ and the possible professional and personal consequences of stepping forward are big parts of the reason many women remain silent until they feel the security of numbers.
            Exactly.

            I have no problem with “me too ism”.

            I’m also glad I’m self employed.
            ______________

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by SexWithRobots View Post
              Douchebag guys have made it way harder for normal people to engage in flirting or asking someone out that they like.
              Yep; some people have made pests of themselves, making it difficult for the rest of us to say anything, for fear of being accused of something. This isn't just a ''men pestering women'' problem, it also applies to minorities screaming ''RACIST'' every time they don't get their way.


              Originally posted by slodge View Post
              The eagerness of some to take these accusations ‘with a grain of salt’ and the possible professional and personal consequences of stepping forward are big parts of the reason many women remain silent until they feel the security of numbers.
              You have a point. However, there are some who take advantage of ''assumed victim'' status to level false charges. Then others who may or may not have been victims start piling on. Often times, a person can be guilty of sexual assault or some other misdeed. But there are other times when someone gets snippy and somebody tells her to shut up. At which point, she turns a small problem into a big one by accusing him of sexual misconduct or ''creating a toxic workplace.'' Companies these days take such charges seriously, which is a good thing. The bad part is when they don't bother asking exactly what happened. That's when the ''victim'' becomes the accuser and the alleged perpetrator suffers formal punishment because the ''victim'' has a thin skin and no sense. And that's the part that really angers me.
              __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________
              How Come Other People Can Get Away With Jokes Like That?

              Face it Tea Bagging Neo-Cons...if Reagan ran today, you'd be calling him a RINO socialist! -- scott666

              Barack Obama must be kenyan - everytime he speaks they trot a translator out the next day to explain what he said.-- ToBeAnnounced

              And even then some people still don't understand.-- RogueGnome

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by The Badger View Post

                Yep; some people have made pests of themselves, making it difficult for the rest of us to say anything, for fear of being accused of something. This isn't just a ''men pestering women'' problem, it also applies to minorities screaming ''RACIST'' every time they don't get their way.




                You have a point. However, there are some who take advantage of ''assumed victim'' status to level false charges. Then others who may or may not have been victims start piling on. Often times, a person can be guilty of sexual assault or some other misdeed. But there are other times when someone gets snippy and somebody tells her to shut up. At which point, she turns a small problem into a big one by accusing him of sexual misconduct or ''creating a toxic workplace.'' Companies these days take such charges seriously, which is a good thing. The bad part is when they don't bother asking exactly what happened. That's when the ''victim'' becomes the accuser and the alleged perpetrator suffers formal punishment because the ''victim'' has a thin skin and no sense. And that's the part that really angers me.
                I assume that there are instances of false charges being leveled - I assume that to be the case for every crime imaginable.

                Yet I can’t help but notice that the only charges we’re encouraged to take with a grain of salt are the ones leveled by women regarding sexual assault or coercion and charges of racism.

                That troubles me.
                x

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by slodge View Post

                  I assume that there are instances of false charges being leveled - I assume that to be the case for every crime imaginable.

                  Yet I can’t help but notice that the only charges we’re encouraged to take with a grain of salt are the ones leveled by women regarding sexual assault or coercion and charges of racism.

                  That troubles me.
                  Sometimes people come forward with false charges. Other times, the accusations may be based in fact, but time and conversation have allowed errors to creep in, which exaggerates a small gesture or offense into a much bigger one.

                  I mentioned sexual assault and racism because those two topics are frequently in the news. There are countless other stories and other offenses that are equally as bad and as suspect. One can just as easily accuse someone else of, say, theft years after it happens and the stolen item has been lost.

                  The inaccuracy of memory is why I said charges of incidents twenty or thirty years or more ago should be viewed with some skepticism. Some of them may be misunderstandings or exaggerations that filtered into the original story. Others may be ''memories'' of things that didn't happen because the victim imagined them without the event having actually happened. If you don't think this is so, try recalling something that happened, say, twenty years ago, then compare it with an account recorded at the time. You may discover that the two don't always match up.

                  The third reason to doubt ''me too!'' accounts is the veracity of the witness. Some people are reliable, others less so. And others have no established credibility at all. It's one thing for a woman to say her husband beat her because they were married and living together at the time. It's another for someone nobody has ever heard of to accuse a celebrity of groping or assaulting her twenty years ago because it's his story against hers and there are no corroborating witnesses. This is even truer when the celebrity has already been sued for damages by two or three people, and someone else decides to get in on the business to claim ''damages'' from something that didn't happen. Sometimes it works because the alleged perpetrator would rather pay people off to make them go away, rather than endure one expensive trial after another.
                  __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________
                  How Come Other People Can Get Away With Jokes Like That?

                  Face it Tea Bagging Neo-Cons...if Reagan ran today, you'd be calling him a RINO socialist! -- scott666

                  Barack Obama must be kenyan - everytime he speaks they trot a translator out the next day to explain what he said.-- ToBeAnnounced

                  And even then some people still don't understand.-- RogueGnome

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by The Badger View Post
                    Let us agree on a few things:
                    1. Some men are swines who think with their gonads. They think they're God's gift to womankind, and must therefore inflict that ''gift'' as often as possible.
                    1. "Some" or many? Such behavior was for many years treated as an essential, immutable hallmark of manliness. So, by saying "some", you're drastically underselling the problem.

                      Originally posted by The Badger View Post
                    2. Some women have been victims of such men in various ways, ranging from wolf-whistles to crude suggestions to having their anatomy grabbed, or in some instances, full-on rape.
                    3. Some boys and men have been subjected to the same kinds of treatment by gay men who think they're God's gift to anybody they can [BLEEP].
                    Ouch! What do you suppose is the ratio of women who have suffered to men who have? Five-to-one? Ten, 50? And I noticed you omitted men who suffered harassment from women. You're missing the point that sexual predation in the workplace -- and in society at large -- is wrong, period.

                    Originally posted by The Badger View Post
                  • And many of those sexually abusive men think they've gotten away with it until some woman gets the courage to speak up and put blame where it is due.
                  Originally posted by The Badger View Post
                  Okay, them's some facts. Now for the problem: Complaints of sexual abuse and ''causing a toxic workplace'' are easy enough to make, but often nearly impossible to disprove.
                  Those men *have* gotten away with it; that's a fact, Consider our Pussy-grabber-in-Chief. Consider the ugly middle-aged married guy hitting on a waitress or bartender. You ever put the blame where it's due when you see behavior like that?

                  Originally posted by The Badger View Post
                  ... in today's society, he's [BLEEP]ed, whether he's guilty or not.

                  That is why one should listen to the ''Me, Too!'' people, and even the original complainants, with a bit of skepticism.
                  Your observations may vary but I've seen a lot more unreported sexist aggression than I have seen false complaints of such.

                  -o-o-o-

                  Instead of #metoo, the French are using a hashtag that translates as "out your pig".
                  !

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