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  • Bartlett (economic advisor to Reagan ) calls supply side a fantasy

    "I helped create the GOP tax myth. Trump is wrong: Tax cuts don’t equal growth." - Bruce Bartlett

    Bruce Bartlett was on WGN news this morning discussing his work on the Reagan era tax cuts and how this notion of tax cuts for the rich equals growth is fantasy.

    "The Reagan tax cut did have a positive effect on the economy, but the prosperity of the ’80s is overrated in the Republican mind. In fact, aggregate real gross domestic product growth was higher in the ’70s — 37.2 percent vs. 35.9 percent.

    Moreover, GOP tax mythology usually leaves out other factors that also contributed to growth in the 1980s: First was the sharp reduction in interest rates by the Federal Reserve. The fed funds rate fell by more than half, from about 19 percent in July 1981 to about 9 percent in November 1982. Second, Reagan’s defense buildup and highway construction programs greatly increased the federal government’s purchases of goods and services. This is textbook Keynesian economics."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-equal-growth/
    Last edited by SexWithRobots; 11-03-2017, 07:59 AM.

  • #2
    Nice, but irrelevant in today's economy.

    Supply side stimulus absolutely works when capital is constrained - Bartlett has himself said that in other interviews. The issue we face right now in the US, however, is not a constraint on investment capital, but rather a lack of ROI driving the investments to be made here in the US.

    Bartlett is a devotee of the euro-model, a political gentleman's agreement where the net effect is the liberals deciding where to spend the money and the conservatives controlling the revenue sources and methods. Thus, they tend to end up with very large social spending systems, financed by less progressive tax structures than ours (heavy reliance on VAT and other personal income, property and consumption taxes, but lower business taxes).

    Thus, the question that needs to be answered is how to help US business compete against global competition thriving in nations that place more of their tax burden on individuals and consumers, and less on their means of production.

    So, yes, supply side stimulus (capital expansion) would not help us today in our current state. The problem with his statement is that it is a technically correct answer to the wrong question.
    "The historical experience of socialist countries has sadly demonstrated that collectivism does not do away with alienation but rather increases it, adding to it a lack of basic necessities and economic inefficiency." ------------------ Pope John Paul II

    Comment


    • #3
      Good point about the impact of government spending on the economy. That was FDR's classic strategy to get us out of the depression.
      __________________________________________________

      Is This Thing On?

      https://soundcloud.com/tom-hicks888

      Comment


      • onelife
        onelife commented
        Editing a comment
        That's what Justin Trudeau has done in Canada and it seems to be working quite well.

        Canada is much better off now than when the Conservatives were in control and cutting spending everywhere.

        A big mistake the Coinservative made was cutting the GST (consumtion tax) from 7% to 5%.

    • #4
      Kansas has already proved that "Supply Side Economics" is bull****.

      It's been tried, and it failed miserably:

      http://www.npr.org/2017/09/30/554506...cut-experiment

      The rich continue to tout it, even though it failed, because it benefits them.

      It's the same old scam. The sheep swallow it up, just as always.
      __________________________________________________
      Hello there.

      Comment


      • Tom Hicks
        Tom Hicks commented
        Editing a comment
        Same with their proposed tax plan which they are selling as targeted to benefiting the middle class.

        But slashing corporate taxes and eliminating the AMT reveals their true goal.

    • #5
      Sure didn't work in Kansas which is a modern day example of how it fails.

      Comment


      • #6
        Originally posted by Tom Hicks View Post
        Good point about the impact of government spending on the economy. That was FDR's classic strategy to get us out of the depression.
        Yes, and Bartlett has noted elsewhere that the majority of the "Great Society" programs were failures when viewed from the big-picture perspective.

        The problem with the Keynesian approach is that nobody in office ever has the political courage to complete the process, i.e., tun off the spending once the stimulus has accomplished the desired effect. Thus, we end up with structual deficits that continue to grow over time, funding programs that have long since outlasted their beneficial life.
        "The historical experience of socialist countries has sadly demonstrated that collectivism does not do away with alienation but rather increases it, adding to it a lack of basic necessities and economic inefficiency." ------------------ Pope John Paul II

        Comment


        • Tom Hicks
          Tom Hicks commented
          Editing a comment
          we need more alphabet soup programs.

          lol delete this!

      • #7
        Originally posted by SteinbergerHack View Post

        Yes, and Bartlett has noted elsewhere that the majority of the "Great Society" programs were failures when viewed from the big-picture perspective.

        The problem with the Keynesian approach is that nobody in office ever has the political courage to complete the process, i.e., tun off the spending once the stimulus has accomplished the desired effect. Thus, we end up with structual deficits that continue to grow over time, funding programs that have long since outlasted their beneficial life.
        FDRs stimulus programs didn’t outlast their desired effect. If anything, arguments are made that they were ended too soon.

        The Great Society programs were not initiated as economic stimulus programs, for the most part.
        ______________

        Comment


        • #8
          The economic and tax policy illiteracy on display in this forum is staggering.

          Take the inane comment above regarding AMT. You guys might want to read up a bit on reality of our tax policy and whom it impacts before posting.

          http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/07/pf/t...tax/index.html
          "The historical experience of socialist countries has sadly demonstrated that collectivism does not do away with alienation but rather increases it, adding to it a lack of basic necessities and economic inefficiency." ------------------ Pope John Paul II

          Comment


          • erok123
            erok123 commented
            Editing a comment
            Same with the arrogance and false arguments from authority.

          • AJ6stringsting
            AJ6stringsting commented
            Editing a comment
            I love how our resident Trickle Down / Voodoo Economics witch doctor still wants us to believe that tax breaks for the 1% ,/ Have Mores still works ..... Sorry SB Hack, the Easter Bunny and Santa aren't coming either.
            Can you read me a story ?
            Last edited by AJ6stringsting; 11-04-2017, 02:29 AM.

          • SteinbergerHack
            SteinbergerHack commented
            Editing a comment
            AJ, you have yet to ever post anything that displays even a grade school level understanding of finance or economics. Did you read the link in my post, and do you understand the words:

            Those income levels, however, are still fairly low ($52,800 for singles this year; $82,100 for married couples filing jointly).
            And the set of rules that governs what can and can't be deducted under the AMT means it's still hitting a fair number of people for whom it was never intended -- those in the middle class and upper middle class.
            Please try to gain a basic level of understanding of the subject under discussion, or leave the conversation to the adults
            Last edited by SteinbergerHack; 11-04-2017, 08:04 AM.

        • #9
          Originally posted by guido61 View Post

          FDRs stimulus programs didn’t outlast their desired effect. If anything, arguments are made that they were ended too soon.

          The Great Society programs were not initiated as economic stimulus programs, for the most part.


          Ever hear of the Great Depression? Of course they were developed as economic stimulus - pure Keynesian programs. They didn't work, and it took WWII to get us out of the depression.
          "The historical experience of socialist countries has sadly demonstrated that collectivism does not do away with alienation but rather increases it, adding to it a lack of basic necessities and economic inefficiency." ------------------ Pope John Paul II

          Comment


          • #10
            Originally posted by SteinbergerHack View Post



            Ever hear of the Great Depression? Of course they were developed as economic stimulus - pure Keynesian programs. They didn't work, and it took WWII to get us out of the depression.
            The “great society” was LBJ in the 60s. Learn some history before posting your emojis and snark

            It took WWII (a MASSIVE government spending program that ran up HUGE debt) to get us out of the Depression because FDR pulled back on spending in ‘37 and the economy got worse.
            ______________

            Comment


            • #11
              Originally posted by SteinbergerHack View Post
              Nice, but irrelevant in today's economy.

              Supply side stimulus absolutely works when capital is constrained - Bartlett has himself said that in other interviews. The issue we face right now in the US, however, is not a constraint on investment capital, but rather a lack of ROI driving the investments to be made here in the US.

              Bartlett is a devotee of the euro-model, a political gentleman's agreement where the net effect is the liberals deciding where to spend the money and the conservatives controlling the revenue sources and methods. Thus, they tend to end up with very large social spending systems, financed by less progressive tax structures than ours (heavy reliance on VAT and other personal income, property and consumption taxes, but lower business taxes).

              Thus, the question that needs to be answered is how to help US business compete against global competition thriving in nations that place more of their tax burden on individuals and consumers, and less on their means of production.

              So, yes, supply side stimulus (capital expansion) would not help us today in our current state. The problem with his statement is that it is a technically correct answer to the wrong question.
              A couple of points, stein, with all due respect.
              we'll get this gigantic tax relief. (and that's the "royal we", as most middle class income folks won't realize any benefit, whatsoever.
              It will add $1.5 Trillion to the deficit over 10 years. (and where are the deficit hawks now?)
              The lower corporate tax rate will benefit stockholders. Companies only hire employees when their business demands it; not when they see that they have the cash to do it.
              And that goes for employees' raises, too. They aren't going to give their employees a raise unless and until they are forced to do so because employees are going across the street to a better paying job.
              This is so basic and fundamental as to be embarrassing to post it here.
              And for that I do apologize.
              Finally, we should never forgive this Congress for allowing this raid on the Treasury in borrowed dollars flowing directly into the pockets of the same people and institutions who have already benefited so enormously in recent years as our infrastructure and middle class go wanting.
              To you I'm an atheist; but to God, I'm the Loyal Opposition.

              Comment


              • #12
                Provide me a shred of evidence when when this theory of trickle down has been proven to work. We have seen it fail over and over around the world. Even on a micro scale when its supposed to be most effective like in Kansas ended up being a complete failure.
                Last edited by SexWithRobots; 11-03-2017, 09:23 AM.

                Comment


                • #13
                  Originally posted by SexWithRobots View Post
                  Provide me a shred of evidence when when this theory of trickle down has been proven to work. We have seen it fail over and over around the world. Even on a micro scale when its supposed to be most effective like in Kansas ended up being a complete failure.
                  Doesn’t stop them trying though, does it?



                  ______________

                  Comment


                  • AJ6stringsting
                    AJ6stringsting commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Neocons and their fractured fairy tales ....

                • #14
                  Originally posted by RogueGnome View Post
                  (and where are the deficit hawks now?)
                  Our current president is a Republican.
                  George Washington was the man who never told a lie. Richard Nixon was the man who never told the truth. Donald Trump is the man who doesn't know the difference.
                  Venezuela is what happens when you have Trump without the Madison.

                  Comment


                  • The Badger
                    The Badger commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Our current president is a lot of things, but the Terms of Service prohibit saying them.

                • #15
                  Originally posted by Hoot Owl View Post
                  Our current president is a Republican.
                  the fixt
                  Our president is currently a Republican.
                  sort of.
                  To you I'm an atheist; but to God, I'm the Loyal Opposition.

                  Comment


                  • AJ6stringsting
                    AJ6stringsting commented
                    Editing a comment
                    And the Neoconic denials begin.....
                    Trump is sooooo Republican.












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