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  • #16
    Originally posted by HAMMER TOSS View Post
    Why not take a bipartisan look at it, and fix what isnt working, keep the good stuff?
    That would be the smart move, but in this hyper-partisan environment, I doubt it will happen.

    The Democrats (especially the base) want Medicare for all... and to Republicans and their party base, that's socialism. There is really no middle ground position for the two parties to compromise to - their approaches to "fixing" the very real issues with the ACA are diametrically opposed, and they're unlikely to find a solution that will be acceptable for both sides, or even to want to work together.
    **********

    "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

    - George Carlin

    "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

    - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

    "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

    - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Hoddy View Post
      Maybe because the ACA sucks...then again everything the repubs have offered is worse.
      What we had before the ACA sucked too

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post

        That would be the smart move, but in this hyper-partisan environment, I doubt it will happen.

        The Democrats (especially the base) want Medicare for all... and to Republicans and their party base, that's socialism. There is really no middle ground position for the two parties to compromise to - their approaches to "fixing" the very real issues with the ACA are diametrically opposed, and they're unlikely to find a solution that will be acceptable for both sides, or even to want to work together.
        but it's OK to have Medicare in place even tho it's socialism? If they're so hot to git ridda socialism, why aren't they working to repeal Medicare?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Hoddy View Post
          Maybe because the ACA sucks...then again everything the repubs have offered is worse.
          Hey Hod, you a Ted Kennedy fan?

          They call it Obamacare but it's really Tedcare. Ted's point of view was to get things started and make them better over time. That appears to be what is happening.

          Thanks Ted!

          Zip
          665 - Neighbor of the Beast

          Originally Posted by RobRoy: I believe that the only way Obama will remain in power is if he suspends elections. And at that point he is no longer president. He is dictator. But I don't believe he will even survive that long. It could be suicide, impeachment by BOTH parties, you name it.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Belva View Post
            but it's OK to have Medicare in place even tho it's socialism? If they're so hot to git ridda socialism, why aren't they working to repeal Medicare?
            For the same reason they can't repeal the ACA - in politics, once you give people something in terms of a socialized program, it's politically next to impossible to get rid of it.
            **********

            "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

            - George Carlin

            "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

            - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

            "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

            - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post

              For the same reason they can't repeal the ACA - in politics, once you give people something in terms of a socialized program, it's politically next to impossible to get rid of it.
              Danm society!

              Zip
              665 - Neighbor of the Beast

              Originally Posted by RobRoy: I believe that the only way Obama will remain in power is if he suspends elections. And at that point he is no longer president. He is dictator. But I don't believe he will even survive that long. It could be suicide, impeachment by BOTH parties, you name it.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post

                For the same reason they can't repeal the ACA - in politics, once you give people something in terms of a socialized program, it's politically next to impossible to get rid of it.
                Honestly, what part of Obamacare socialist? What portion of the ACA controls medical care? All the ACA did was eliminate lifetime max, preexisting conditions and set up exchanges to purchase. Yes there some funding to assist those who can't afford it and penalties to those who don't buy insurance. Nothing here where the government controls the means of production

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by HAMMER TOSS View Post
                  it just seems weird that the GOP is working so hard at accomplishing something that the majority of Americans clearly do not want.
                  The last election proved the people wanted it replaced so your argument is totally lame.

                  Its the senators that don't want it changed.

                  Rich Insurance companies raking in billions and special interest grouper are the ones who rule congress. They are the ones who senators listen too if they plan on being reelected. I swear liberals must be living in a freaking fantasy world if they think these senators have a will of their own.

                  They get most of their political contributions from industries who use senators to pass laws like this that make them rich. Imagine you own a company that makes widgets, and congress passes a law that makes all 350 million people buy a new widget from you every year which costs thousands. That widget doesn't cost you anything to manufacturer. Its simply written down on paper.

                  Even if half is paid out on actual insurance coverage you can be retired with more money then you can count in a few years. The insurance companies laugh at liberals because they are the ones providing the grease that gets them to the bank. What's the payback to liberals? Only the politicians see payback. The average boob gets taken to the cleaners just like everyone else does by these crooks.

                  I'm almost at the point where I'd prefer no insurance. Make everyone pay out of pocket for their healthcare. I know it sounds completely heartless but its the only thing that can drive the insurance companies monopoly out of the health industry. Substituting government for the insurance companies is truly a ridiculous substitute too. They are worse then the health care companies when it comes to soaking the citizens, mainly because they don't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to medicine.

                  The Medical industry should be run by people in that industry. If they want to offer people payment plans of group care it should be done on that level. If they over charge people will go elsewhere.

                  I don't know if anyone here is old enough to remember when government got involved in auto insurance. The result was government competing with private business and because the government wasn't concerned with making a profit the private industry artificially drove the costs of insurance up.

                  Once government got out of the car insurance business, the costs for insurance dropped like a lead balloon. People who got tickets and had accidents still paid high prices but the rest who had good records had great reductions. That's what can happen if government got their fat money grubbing ass out of the business.
                  Last edited by WRGKMC; 09-26-2017, 08:43 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Tom Hicks
                    Tom Hicks commented
                    Editing a comment
                    The last election proved the people wanted it replaced so your argument is totally lame.
                    Are you talking about the part of the last election where the D candidate got millions more votes? Your idea of proof seems odd to me. Here's a poll from last spring saying otherwise.

                    A majority of Americans wants lawmakers to keep and fix ObamaCare rather than replace it with a Republican alternative, according to a new poll.

                    The ABC/Washington Post poll found that 61 percent of respondents want ObamaCare fixed instead of repealed and replaced.

                    Seventy-nine percent said President Trump should make ObamaCare work instead of letting it fail, as he has previously threatened.
                    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...-fix-obamacare

                • #24
                  Originally posted by WRGKMC View Post

                  The last election proved the people wanted it replaced so your argument is totally lame.

                  Its the senators that don't want it changed.

                  Rich Insurance companies raking in billions and special interest grouper are the ones who rule congress. They are the ones who senators listen too if they plan on being reelected. I swear liberals must be living in a freaking fantasy world if they think these senators have a will of their own.

                  They get most of their political contributions from industries who use senators to pass laws like this that make them rich. Imagine you own a company that makes widgets, and congress passes a law that makes all 350 million people buy a new widget from you every year which costs thousands. That widget doesn't cost you anything to manufacturer. Its simply written down on paper.

                  Even if half is paid out on actual insurance coverage you can be retired with more money then you can count in a few years. The insurance companies laugh at liberals because they are the ones providing the grease that gets them to the bank. What's the payback to liberals? Only the politicians see payback. The average boob gets taken to the cleaners just like everyone else does by these crooks.

                  I'm almost at the point where I'd prefer no insurance. Make everyone pay out of pocket for their healthcare. I know it sounds completely heartless but its the only thing that can drive the insurance companies monopoly out of the health industry. Substituting government for the insurance companies is truly a ridiculous substitute too. They are worse then the health care companies when it comes to soaking the citizens, mainly because they don't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to medicine.

                  The Medical industry should be run by people in that industry. If they want to offer people payment plans of group care it should be done on that level. If they over charge people will go elsewhere.

                  I don't know if anyone here is old enough to remember when government got involved in auto insurance. The result was government competing with private business and because the government wasn't concerned with making a profit the private industry artificially drove the costs of insurance up.

                  Once government got out of the car insurance business, the costs for insurance dropped like a lead balloon. People who got tickets and had accidents still paid high prices but the rest who had good records had great reductions. That's what can happen if government got their fat money grubbing ass out of the business.
                  That was one sweet rant, and spot on.

                  My wife and I are 63 now. We take personal responsibility for our health. We abandoned health care insurance on 1/1/2014, the day Obamacare become officially binding. We have samved, in AFTER TAX dollars in insurance premiums, over $50,000 since then. And even if we did have insurance, the deductible would have meant virtually nothing would have been covered short of major surgery.

                  And here is the dirty little secret about that exposed just three days ago in a real situation with one of my wife's friends: She had an ongoing health issue that has been treated to the point that she now requires surgery. The hospital said that her cost, AFTER insurance pays their part, would be $25,000. She declined because she simply could not afford it. One of the staff pulled her aside and said, "If you bypass insurance and do 'patient pays' it can be reduced to $6,000."

                  That is what she's doing.

                  That is not the most dramatic anecdotal story I've been privy to, but it is the most recent - and very telling.

                  i.e. Health insurance is not worth the cost.
                  All text I enter is my opinion. If I feel it necessary to prove it, I'll back it up with links.

                  Comment


                  • fretmess
                    fretmess commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Why when describing a secret do you always use the modifier "dirty little"?

                  • RobRoy
                    RobRoy commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Not always, but sometimes it makes the point. In this case it is a "dirty" secret.

                • #25
                  Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post

                  For the same reason they can't repeal the ACA - in politics, once you give people something in terms of a socialized program, it's politically next to impossible to get rid of it.
                  Yep. I do believe it will be "self repealed", however. I use this analogy:

                  The US under ACA is like a bus barreling down the road at full speed, headed straight for a thick and strong concrete wall. It is being "co-steered" by 100 drivers called "senators". Before they can apply the brakes, they must discuss and vote on a braking solution that is acceptable to at least 51 of them.

                  They WILL NEVER come to agreement.

                  However, the good news is that the bus will, in fact, stop, when it hits the wall. We can at least rebuild something from the pieces. And it had better be a thing where the government is not involved in health care. At all. It's not their mission statement. It's not within the scope of their purpose. And we are learning what happens when some misguided fascists try to make it their business.
                  Last edited by RobRoy; 09-26-2017, 09:33 AM.
                  All text I enter is my opinion. If I feel it necessary to prove it, I'll back it up with links.

                  Comment


                  • #26
                    Originally posted by Zipperhead View Post

                    Danm society!

                    Zip
                    It's not society that is the problem. It is the fascists within it.
                    All text I enter is my opinion. If I feel it necessary to prove it, I'll back it up with links.

                    Comment


                    • #27
                      Originally posted by RobRoy View Post
                      Yep. I do believe it will be "self repealed", however. I use this analogy:

                      The US under ACA is like a bus barreling down the road at full speed, headed straight for a thick and strong concrete wall. It is being "co-steered" by 100 drivers called "senators". Before they can apply the brakes, they must discuss and vote on a braking solution that is acceptable to at least 51 of them.

                      They WILL NEVER come to agreement.

                      However, the good news is that the bus will, in fact, stop, when it hits the wall. We can at least rebuild something from the pieces. And it had better be a thing where the government is not involved in health care. At all. It's not their mission statement. It's not within the scope of their purpose. And we are learning what happens when some misguided fascists try to make it their business.
                      It was that way before the ACA as well. IF Congress manages to do something, it will still be feeked up

                      Comment


                      • #28
                        Originally posted by Belva View Post

                        It was that way before the ACA as well. IF Congress manages to do something, it will still be feeked up
                        Yes, it was. ACA just made it remarkably worse. Fact is, if they had simply returned to free market health care and health insurance, it could have really fixed it.

                        The weird thing is that there is one HUGE positive about the ACA: Because of the high deductibles, people are forced to shop around, and in the process they are discovering that they can get health care surprisingly cheap. i.e. it is creating actual free market competition when people don't use their insurance.

                        Every cloud has a silver lining.
                        All text I enter is my opinion. If I feel it necessary to prove it, I'll back it up with links.

                        Comment


                        • #29
                          Originally posted by HAMMER TOSS View Post
                          other than throwing red-meat to his base STILL suffering from Obama Derangement Syndrome, who stands to gain if it is repealed?


                          Why not take a bipartisan look at it, and fix what isnt working, keep the good stuff?

                          The vast majority of US citizens are not in favor of repeal, especially considering the weak alternatives the GOP has thrown together. Why is the GOP so feverishly working in opposition to what the people want??
                          The rush is so the Republicans and Trump can say they won and stick it to the Democrats. The Democrats passed ACA all on their own and shut out the Republicans which is what made them mad. So now that Obamacare needs band-aids the Repubs don't want to help but just want the wounds to fester.

                          The idiot Republicans also said they had a plan in place which they did not.

                          Many parts of the act, I've read from the pundits, were not well thought out, the Dems expected to be in power forever and put out the fires as they came up.

                          The Dems were so happy to pull the rug out from under the Repubs and get this signature legislation passed.

                          It's never been about bipartisan it's about winning.

                          This is a clear example of our Congress in action.

                          I've always said I love gridlock because when Congress "fixes" something they always make it worse, Democrats and Republicans. The less they do the better.

                          The system before Obamacare was working for the majority of people. Why not just fix the healthcare system for the people it wasn't working for. The Dems broke the entire system because you know misery loves company!

                          Comment


                          • #30
                            There is breaking news they will not vote before the deadline. #winning
                            😉

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