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White Christians are now a minority — but they’re getting more isolated and less tolerant!!!!

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  • Originally posted by Hoddy View Post
    White Christians are now a minority — but they’re getting more isolated and less tolerant!!!!

    White Christians are now a minority — but they’re getting more isolated and less tolerant

    “The younger generation, Americans under the age of 30 — more than eight in 10 of them support same-sex marriage,” Jones said, adding that the issue has become “a litmus test issue for many millennials in the country.”


    “It’s not just that conservative white Christians have lost this argument with a broader liberal culture,” he noted. “It’s that they’ve lost it with their own kids and grandchildren.”

    http://www.salon.com/2017/09/11/whit...less-tolerant/

    This is great news IMO...but it also explains why white christians are becoming more extreme and more militant. It must suck when you can't indoctrinate your own children with your hatred, bigotry and racism all in the name of Chrisitianity. The county I live in is very conservative with around 75% registered as republicans...and these aren't moderate republicans...they're you Bible thumpin' Rebel flag flying republicans...and yet all the kids out here that we know are all OK with gay marriage, interracial relationships and so on...they're parents are quickly becoming dinosaurs!
    White Christians are becoming a minority because they have nothing to offer most people. Unless you're brought up believing Reverend Hellfire and his talk of Damnation through "secular humanism" and Salvation through prayer, rigidly following fundamentalist religious doctrine and donating about six billion bucks a year, it doesn't make much sense. Those of us who value logic over Leviticus have left The Faith (any one, they're all similar) for one reason or another, or never got interested in the first place. That's why white Christians are becoming a minority. Maybe why "The Church" is having trouble finding ministers who are willing to take vows of poverty and chastity. And why pedophiles have been allowed to slip into the clerical ranks.

    The isolation is even easier to understand. When a person or group walls themselves off from "other people" because they're "not like us," or worse, "don't worship the way we do," such a group becomes an insular, inbred group with little contact with the rest of the community. Or they become pariahs among Christians who've read the New Testament the way some fundamentalists have read the Old Testament, and found what Jesus said was more interesting than, say, obsessing over a few verses in Leviticus. Or in the case of the Westboro Baptist Church and their like, both.

    The militancy of fundamentalist and conservative Christian churches and sects is understandable. The world is changing and leaving them behind. Rather than going with the flow and discovering God in other ways and other places, they're digging in their heels, throwing tantrums and demanding a return to "the good old days" of The Inquisition and medieval combination of church and state. I maintain that come Judgement Day, they're going to find themselves in an unexpected place...assuming they know where they are, what with all the other conservative Christian fundamentalists about.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________
    How Come Other People Can Get Away With Jokes Like That?

    Face it Tea Bagging Neo-Cons...if Reagan ran today, you'd be calling him a RINO socialist! -- scott666

    Barack Obama must be kenyan - everytime he speaks they trot a translator out the next day to explain what he said.-- ToBeAnnounced

    And even then some people still don't understand.-- RogueGnome

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    • Originally posted by guido61 View Post


      Hmmmm....

      we covered this already in another thread. It is not about believing that changing genitals can "turn a man into a woman". It's that the person is already the other sex. Surgery is simply to help the body to conform....

      Now we are back to throwing out what biology and the laws of science has established to allow to a person's thoughts and desires being the real gauge of truth.

      This is so over the top ridiculous.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by LARRY L View Post

        Now we are back to throwing out what biology and the laws of science has established to allow to a person's thoughts and desires being the real gauge of truth.

        This is so over the top ridiculous.
        Any chance of you citing the laws of science that you're referring to? Specifically the ones that have been thrown out.
        __________________________________________________

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        • Originally posted by LARRY L View Post

          Now we are back to throwing out what biology and the laws of science has established to allow to a person's thoughts and desires being the real gauge of truth.

          This is so over the top ridiculous.

          The laws of science are not immutable. We learn new things all the time. What is ridiculous is believing that everything science has to learn about the human condition we already know as of September 2017.

          Nobody is "throwing out" anything. Simply asking we be open to greater possibilities. But here's the simple bottom line as we know it today:

          Something is going on with people who are transgender. There are numerous accounts of people 3 years old and even younger for whom it is clear in their minds they are not the gender their bodies indicate. There is no convincing them otherwise. And trying to force them to be the gender their bodies indicate is not helping them. This condition is currently called "Gender Dysphobia" and is currently classified as a mental condition.

          Logic tells me one of two things must be the cause: either they are mentally defective, or what determines gender is greater than what science currently understands regarding genitalia and DNA. But whatever the actual cause and nature of this condition, we must deal with these people as we understand them today.

          Trying to force kids to be what they look like us to be doesn't work. It causes depression, mental anguish and often leads to suicide. Studies are pretty clear that allowing these kids to be the gender they believe they are works much better for them and their lives.

          And if this is true, then what is the harm in allowing them to live their lives as they choose? Why is it important to you that society insist upon strict standards for how we treat children and adults based upon what genitalia they were born with? How does doing this benefit you or the rest of society, let alone the transgender individual?

          Unless and until science can come up with better answers for all of this, then why SHOULDN'T we be accommodating to their needs and desires? Especially if we can't be 100% certain that they aren't correct about themselves?

          Can you tell me with 100% certainty that science won't someday learn that gender is defined by something else inside our brains and that sometimes the physical indicators of our gender can be wrong?
          ______________

          Comment


          • Some people think that "thoughts and desires" don't come from biology. Your brain is biologic organ. Your thoughts and desires come from your brain.

            If your brain is wired female, you are female, regardless of how your junk is wired. You will always think of yourself as female, and you will always FEEL female. Because that is how your brain is wired.
            Last edited by BA.Barcolounger; 09-14-2017, 10:10 AM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Red Ant View Post


              I do my best to practice the Christian doctrine of "hate the sin, love the sinner". That I despise ideology, inclusive of religion, isn't exactly a secret. But I do love people, and try to love them in spite of what I might perceive as their shortcomings... right up to the point when people (individually) prove themselves unworthy.
              Well you do tolerate me...and that says something.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by LARRY L View Post

                Now we are back to throwing out what biology and the laws of science has established to allow to a person's thoughts and desires being the real gauge of truth.

                This is so over the top ridiculous.
                Link to it being well established.
                Last edited by NOS68; 09-14-2017, 08:03 PM.

                Comment


                • turns out the science isn't so swell established

                  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1AJ0F0

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Tom Hicks View Post

                    Any chance of you citing the laws of science that you're referring to? Specifically the ones that have been thrown out.
                    Basic biology, what defines a male, what defines a female. A person sex was never gauged on an individual's feeling or desire. If we change the foundations to say a male is only a male if the person's subjective opinion agrees to it, then the rock solid laws of science that define the sexes must be thrown out. I cannot believe I even have to explain how ridiculous the notion is.

                    It is creepy to see the minds of people get so confused.

                    Comment


                    • Tom Hicks
                      Tom Hicks commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Maybe you are confused. I didn't ask for your to restate your beliefs, but rather that you cite the laws of science you referred to earlier. I know...backing up unsupported claims is HARD.

                  • Originally posted by NOS68 View Post

                    Link to it being well established.
                    A link? just read any basic biology book, are you kidding?? This is so creepy.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by guido61 View Post


                      The laws of science are not immutable. We learn new things all the time. What is ridiculous is believing that everything science has to learn about the human condition we already know as of September 2017.

                      Nobody is "throwing out" anything. Simply asking we be open to greater possibilities. But here's the simple bottom line as we know it today:

                      Something is going on with people who are transgender. There are numerous accounts of people 3 years old and even younger for whom it is clear in their minds they are not the gender their bodies indicate. There is no convincing them otherwise. And trying to force them to be the gender their bodies indicate is not helping them. This condition is currently called "Gender Dysphobia" and is currently classified as a mental condition.

                      Logic tells me one of two things must be the cause: either they are mentally defective, or what determines gender is greater than what science currently understands regarding genitalia and DNA. But whatever the actual cause and nature of this condition, we must deal with these people as we understand them today.

                      Trying to force kids to be what they look like us to be doesn't work. It causes depression, mental anguish and often leads to suicide. Studies are pretty clear that allowing these kids to be the gender they believe they are works much better for them and their lives.

                      And if this is true, then what is the harm in allowing them to live their lives as they choose? Why is it important to you that society insist upon strict standards for how we treat children and adults based upon what genitalia they were born with? How does doing this benefit you or the rest of society, let alone the transgender individual?

                      Unless and until science can come up with better answers for all of this, then why SHOULDN'T we be accommodating to their needs and desires? Especially if we can't be 100% certain that they aren't correct about themselves?

                      Can you tell me with 100% certainty that science won't someday learn that gender is defined by something else inside our brains and that sometimes the physical indicators of our gender can be wrong?
                      Show me a link that says children / people are better off believing the lie that they think they are the opposite sex by facilitating their fairyland desires.
                      So far the from what I heard, the 22 times more or whatever suicide rate remains the same, with or without a pretend change.

                      We are talking about people who need real help that are hurting and confused. The last thing they need is to get support in their personal delusion, as to keep the wrong feelings alive telling them they are the other sex if that's how they FEEL they are.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by LARRY L View Post
                        A link? just read any basic biology book, are you kidding?? This is so creepy.
                        Nope it's been pointed out and backed up to you a bunch of times that psychology plays a major role too yet you keep ignoring that because it doesn't fit your backwards black and white views, so yup back up your BS.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by guido61 View Post


                          The laws of science are not immutable. We learn new things all the time. What is ridiculous is believing that everything science has to learn about the human condition we already know as of September 2017.

                          Nobody is "throwing out" anything. Simply asking we be open to greater possibilities. But here's the simple bottom line as we know it today:

                          Something is going on with people who are transgender. There are numerous accounts of people 3 years old and even younger for whom it is clear in their minds they are not the gender their bodies indicate. There is no convincing them otherwise. And trying to force them to be the gender their bodies indicate is not helping them. This condition is currently called "Gender Dysphobia" and is currently classified as a mental condition.

                          Logic tells me one of two things must be the cause: either they are mentally defective, or what determines gender is greater than what science currently understands regarding genitalia and DNA. But whatever the actual cause and nature of this condition, we must deal with these people as we understand them today.

                          Trying to force kids to be what they look like us to be doesn't work. It causes depression, mental anguish and often leads to suicide. Studies are pretty clear that allowing these kids to be the gender they believe they are works much better for them and their lives.

                          And if this is true, then what is the harm in allowing them to live their lives as they choose? Why is it important to you that society insist upon strict standards for how we treat children and adults based upon what genitalia they were born with? How does doing this benefit you or the rest of society, let alone the transgender individual?

                          Unless and until science can come up with better answers for all of this, then why SHOULDN'T we be accommodating to their needs and desires? Especially if we can't be 100% certain that they aren't correct about themselves?

                          Can you tell me with 100% certainty that science won't someday learn that gender is defined by something else inside our brains and that sometimes the physical indicators of our gender can be wrong?

                          If we play the game where all truth is relative, as of 2017 1+1=2 but not sure about that years from now,,,,, then we have no foundation for anything to stand on or to make judgments with.

                          Are we really created with the rights for the pursuit of happiness and personal freedom? Who really determines
                          that?

                          The culture? The people who are in power? The majority vote? The ramifications of all truth being relative, can lead to the death of millions. Look at history.

                          Comment


                          • Tom Hicks
                            Tom Hicks commented
                            Editing a comment
                            even math can be relative Larry.

                            What's one jet airplane + 2 volcanos =?

                        • Originally posted by NOS68 View Post

                          Nope it's been pointed out and backed up to you a bunch of times that psychology plays a major role too yet you keep ignoring that because it doesn't fit your backwards black and white views, so yup back up your BS.
                          The BS is having what a person feels override the solid facts. Can I be a collie if I feel like one? To what plumb line do we use to validate my feelings to become a fact that I am a collie, trapped in a human body? You say the physical makeup and DNA are not valid measures, then all that is left is my feelings and desires.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by LARRY L View Post

                            Show me a link that says children / people are better off believing the lie that they think they are the opposite sex by facilitating their fairyland desires.
                            So far the from what I heard, the 22 times more or whatever suicide rate remains the same, with or without a pretend change.

                            We are talking about people who need real help that are hurting and confused. The last thing they need is to get support in their personal delusion, as to keep the wrong feelings alive telling them they are the other sex if that's how they FEEL they are.
                            Here you go. Here's a long term study on the matter that is currently underway.

                            http://www.washington.edu/news/2016/...mental-health/

                            When you say "with or without the pretend change" I presume you are referring to people who have undergone gender reassignment surgery. That's usually something done by adults who have already spent a great portion of their life trying to be something that feels wrong to them. In such instances the psychological damage is probably already done.

                            This study talks about how we deal with children afflicted with this condition.
                            ______________

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