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How The Transgender Crusade Made Me Rethink My Support For Gay Marriage

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  • #76
    I did read the article, and it doesn't make any real sense or have much of a point. She's not a professional writer, she's a mommy blogger on a random neo-con website. First, she talks about herself and her doings on social media. (yawn!) Then a paragraph about "great thinker" Erick Erickson. (LOL). Then a unsubstantiated report of transgender indoctrination at a charter school kindergarten in California. (OMG! Think of the children!) Then something about a "frightening thought experiment" which means something she thinks could happen, but hasn't actually happened. She thinks Child Protective Services will get involved if your grade-school age child decided they're TG and you (the parent) don't provide the medical care for them to transition. Utterly laughable. These are typical "straw man" and "slippery slope" type arguments.

    Originally posted by The article
    The Left has shown the totalitarian manner in which it exacts support, or at least silence, from everyday Americans.
    Yup! The same way "the left" made us get rid of "whites only" lunch counters and water fountains.

    And then, the big MONEY SHOT of the article, which makes absolutely no sense to me. "Because I have made you." Nope, I did NOT make you, rich stay-at-home mommy blogger Bethany Mandel! Is she talking about God, I suppose?

    All I know is that gay and trans people have existed throughout the history of man, seemingly without regard to race, culture or religion. And of course most cultures and religions have been opposed to it, but somehow thousands of years of religious admonishing hasn't made it go away. I know you don't believe this Rob, but gay people DON'T CHOOSE to be that way! Allowing gays and transgender to live with dignity doesn't stop you from worshiping in the way you choose.

    I don't think people are aware of the horrid treatment gays received from society and law enforcement until very recently. The treatment that computer genius Alan Turing received as a gay man in 1950s England led to his suicide.
    Last edited by Mr.Grumpy; 09-08-2017, 08:59 AM. Reason: grammar correction.
    This space left intentionally blank.

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    • #77
      Just remember what Jesus said:

      "Mind your own fooking business"

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Belva View Post
        If someone is of legal age, usually 18, they have a right to become the opposite sex. If someone is homosexual, they have that right. Anybody above the legal age to marry have that right. If a man makes his self a woman and a woman makes herself a man, they meet, get married,... THEY HAVE THAT RIGHT. The laws may not fully recognize that nationwide, but the Constipation will not be wrongly interpreted.
        Originally posted by Opposite Day View Post

        And if a man feels he's a woman and wants to experience the miracle of bearing a child, he has that right, and if he wants to feel the awesome power of feminine corporeal autonomy and abort that child he has that right, and if he wants to join the women's olympic wrestling team and sweep the gold medals he has that right.... I know that will sound absurd to some people, but that's only because their hearts are overflowing with HAAAATE!!
        Two things:
        1) Nobody ever said anything about reproduction. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure that part out.
        2) It's pretty clear there isn't any hate in my post. Tolerance and acceptance, yes. Hate, No.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Opposite Day View Post

          And if a man feels he's a woman and wants to experience the miracle of bearing a child, he has that right, and if he wants to feel the awesome power of feminine corporeal autonomy and abort that child he has that right, and if he wants to join the women's olympic wrestling team and sweep the gold medals he has that right.... I know that will sound absurd to some people, but that's only because their hearts are overflowing with HAAAATE!!
          Not sure this really needs to be said, but when you have to resort to these sorts of straw men and slippery slope arguments, then it's pretty clear you really have an argument at all.

          BTW, have people started marrying their pet fish yet? I'm still waiting for that "prediction" to come true.
          ______________

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          • #80
            Originally posted by guido61 View Post
            I used to go use the restroom, do my business, and leave without giving too much thought to anything or anyone else. As long as I made sure to wash my hands on the way out, all was good.

            But now it seems I have to worry about conservatives who will be trying to check out to see what's in my pants to make sure I'm "really" a guy because they have been "forced" to care about it?

            Wow. How times have changed.
            You are not even listening to the other point of view with you over simplified remarks. There is a movement out there that wants us all to agree to the notion that we can actually change our sex and our DNA has nothing to do with it, nor our physical make up. Most who do not believe this are not stopping others from mutilating their bodies and them believing they now are whatever they so choose to identify with. But the ones who do not agree are being suppressed to be silent or even expected to agree with it. That is the attack I see. The PC police are in place to shutdown or cast out anybody who would say the science of biology facts show you cannot change your sex, the problem is in their heads.

            How this all plays out in the world is really making a mess of things, as we see now men who are said to be women breaking records in women's sports, the sharing of dressing rooms, showers, and dorms. Perhaps you have no problem with your daughter having a physical male undressing with her that identifies to being a female, but many do, including me.

            Comment


            • Phil O'Keefe
              Phil O'Keefe commented
              Editing a comment
              Please see the comments in post 85 - you're being asked to substantiate a claim... specifically about "men who are said to be women breaking records in women's sports." Apparently, the link previously provided does not actually substantiate that claim...

          • #81
            Originally posted by LARRY L View Post
            You are not even listening to the other point of view with you over simplified remarks. There is a movement out there that wants us all to agree to the notion that we can actually change our sex and our DNA has nothing to do with it, nor our physical make up. Most who do not believe this are not stopping others from mutilating their bodies and them believing they now are whatever they so choose to identify with. But the ones who do not agree are being suppressed to be silent or even expected to agree with it. That is the attack I see. The PC police are in place to shutdown or cast out anybody who would say the science of biology facts show you cannot change your sex, the problem is in their heads.

            How this all plays out in the world is really making a mess of things, as we see now men who are said to be women breaking records in women's sports, the sharing of dressing rooms, showers, and dorms. Perhaps you have no problem with your daughter having a physical male undressing with her that identifies to being a female, but many do, including me.
            How often does you strawman argument happen, in your opinion?

            100 time a day? 1000 times a day? 1,000,000 times a day?

            Comment


            • #82
              Originally posted by oldsoapbars View Post

              Seriously, how does this affect you directly?
              Why does that matter, life is more than our own personal happiness. The Huston flood had no direct affect on me, yet I still want to see the people helped and not be in distress. With a 22 times higher rate of suicide with transgenders, they need real help too.

              https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...RBgT1ppnbqNO9A

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              • #83
                Originally posted by LARRY L View Post
                You are not even listening to the other point of view with you over simplified remarks.
                The oversimplified remarks of those I'm responding to sometimes deserve in-kind replies. I've tried more in-depth discussion on the issue. It usually just gets met with bumper-sticker rhetoric, so why bother?


                There is a movement out there that wants us all to agree to the notion that we can actually change our sex and our DNA has nothing to do with it, nor our physical make up. Most who do not believe this are not stopping others from mutilating their bodies and them believing they now are whatever they so choose to identify with. But the ones who do not agree are being suppressed to be silent or even expected to agree with it. That is the attack I see. The PC police are in place to shutdown or cast out anybody who would say the science of biology facts show you cannot change your sex, the problem is in their heads.
                Clearly that is the take many have on what is going on. But no one trying to get anyone to believe that sex can be changed. Or that DNA has nothing to do it. What people are asking you to consider is that the nature of gender might be more complicated than what science currently is able to understand. It used to be we thought it could all be determined by simply looking at genitalia. Than DNA science came along and we understood that there were exceptions to what was produced by the genitalia. What if it is more complex than that? Something has to account for the people who believe INSTINCTIVELY that they are a different gender than what their genitalia or DNA indicates. Until science can conclude one way or another for these exceptions, then all anyone is asking is that people allow everyone to be what they instinctively believe they are as long as they cause no harm to anyone else. Is that so wrong? Why?

                As far as "sex can be changed", the transgenders see it as making their genitalia conform to what they instinctively know to be true. It isn't changing their gender, it's changing their genitalia.

                How this all plays out in the world is really making a mess of things, as we see now men who are said to be women breaking records in women's sports, the sharing of dressing rooms, showers, and dorms. Perhaps you have no problem with your daughter having a physical male undressing with her that identifies to being a female, but many do, including me.
                The only case I know of of a "man who said to be a woman breaking records in women's sports" is the African runner in the Olympics. And that poor thing has been studied and poked and prodded and harassed to death over the issue. And no one really knows what is going on with her DNA, testosterone levels or genitalia because they've been pretty private about all of that. But obviously something unique is going on with her as the Olympic body has allowed her to continue to compete as a woman. But there is obviously something pretty unique about her situation. My guess is that, for this whole thing to ever have come up in the first place, is that she must have been born with a vagina and was, as such, raised as a girl. And as she grew it started to appear that "maybe she's really a man". But I really don't know the whole story there.

                If anything, her case appears to be more of one of what would happen if we allow YOUR way of handling things to be the norm: that she's a physical female who identifies as a female but has been forced to live her life as a woman because that's what her genitalia indicates?

                Or maybe you are speaking of other record-breakers in women's sports?

                As far as my own daughter goes, yes. I would feel more comfortable with her sharing a bathroom or locker room with a "physical male" who otherwise looks, acts and identifies as a girl and would almost certainly be sexually interested in boys than having her share one with a "physical female" who looks, acts and identifies as a boy who would almost certainly be sexually interested in girls. As far as this goes, she would likely be more "threatened" or uncomfortable around the lesbian girls in the locker room than a "physical male".

                Not that I actually worry too much about that part of it as there are already rules in place for kids being harassed by anyone in the locker room regardless of their sexual orientation or genitalia. But if that's where your concerns lie---think about who would ACTUALLY be the bigger threat to your daughter?
                Last edited by guido61; 09-07-2017, 10:03 AM.
                ______________

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                • #84
                  Originally posted by LARRY L View Post
                  You are not even listening to the other point of view with you over simplified remarks. There is a movement out there that wants us all to agree to the notion that we can actually change our sex and our DNA has nothing to do with it, nor our physical make up.
                  Um, wait. Are we talking changing DNA? Really? Link? Or is that a slip of the tongue?
                  Perhaps you have no problem with your daughter having a physical male undressing with her that identifies to being a female, but many do, including me.
                  Nobody said anything about that. At least not to my knowledge. And if you don't want your daughter in the same restroom as a man, I suggest you be a parent. Good parents ensure their kids are safe. They also teach them so they're OK when they get older. The likelihood of being 'attacked by freakos' has been around longer than there have been pubic restrooms. AND TG's
                  The big stink about this makes me wonder why. Do you want a world where there's pee police everywhere to make sure their kids are safe?
                  What happens when the pee police turn bad? See above about proper parenting. This isn't new. Surgical techniques are somewhat recent, but that's called the world constantly changing.
                  We do not have the power to make laws against these surgeons transplanting wing wangers.
                  Read up on the Constitution and the judicial system in our country. Study it. Then deal with it.
                  Last edited by Belva; 09-07-2017, 09:41 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Phil O'Keefe
                    Phil O'Keefe commented
                    Editing a comment
                    His post didn't say anything about changing DNA - I believe he's saying that people are claiming they can change gender, in spite of not changing their DNA...

                • #85
                  Originally posted by LARRY L View Post
                  You are not even listening to the other point of view with you over simplified remarks. There is a movement out there that wants us all to agree to the notion that we can actually change our sex and our DNA has nothing to do with it, nor our physical make up. Most who do not believe this are not stopping others from mutilating their bodies and them believing they now are whatever they so choose to identify with. But the ones who do not agree are being suppressed to be silent or even expected to agree with it. That is the attack I see. The PC police are in place to shutdown or cast out anybody who would say the science of biology facts show you cannot change your sex, the problem is in their heads.

                  How this all plays out in the world is really making a mess of things, as we see now men who are said to be women breaking records in women's sports, the sharing of dressing rooms, showers, and dorms. Perhaps you have no problem with your daughter having a physical male undressing with her that identifies to being a female, but many do, including me.


                  Need a link to support the statement "Men who are said to be women breaking records in women's sports"

                  Co-ed dorms have been happening since LONG before this transgender issue came-up, so that's not relevant to this topic, either.

                  I'm also unconvinced that TG people are sharing public locker rooms / dressing rooms / showers with members of their post-op sex and that it's a problem. I think this is just an invented fear that has no basis in actual behavior Please link to stories indicating that this is happening and is creating 'problems'.

                  Comment


                  • LARRY L
                    LARRY L commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Is that the new strategy, I must provide a link with ever well talked about concern out there in hope I might miss one?

                  • wasgtrjones
                    wasgtrjones commented
                    Editing a comment
                    link 2 didn't even discuss TG in sports, much less 'men breaking records in women's sports.

                    link 1 mentioned a woman who won a weightlifting competition. It didn't say anything about breaking records, and as Ms. Jenner said in her response, the Olympic Committee has been studying this issue for years, and the person that competed and won that competition was, according to the very strict rules and guidelines, a woman. So that was not "a man breaking records in women's sports".

                    I'm not doing a google search or whatever for "Matt Kroc" - it's your duty to support your statement.

                    So far you have not. Try again.

                  • wasgtrjones
                    wasgtrjones commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I'm also a little pissed-off that I had to watch almost 15 minutes of Tucker Carlson (bleah!) just to figure-out if your links were real.

                • #86
                  Originally posted by oldsoapbars View Post

                  How often does you strawman argument happen, in your opinion?

                  100 time a day? 1000 times a day? 1,000,000 times a day?
                  Can you just address the specifics instead of making odd remarks. Let's look at science, has there ever been a born male child, grown up now and able to bear children and nurse them. If yes, and it just happens in nature with humans, then we can flip our sex. If no, then the desire for being the opposite sex is just that, a desire.

                  It is very simple.
                  Last edited by LARRY L; 09-07-2017, 09:45 AM.

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                  • #87
                    Originally posted by LARRY L View Post
                    Can you just address the specifics instead of making odd remarks. Let's look at science, has there ever been a born male child, grown up now and able to bear children and nurse them. If yes, and it just happens in nature with humans, then we can flip our sex. If no, then the desire for being the opposite sex is just that, a desire.

                    It is very simple.
                    Is the comment above a psychological belief, a medical belief or a religious belief of yours?

                    Or is it the Truth?
                    __________________________________________________

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                    https://soundcloud.com/tom-hicks888

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                    • #88
                      Originally posted by LARRY L View Post
                      Can you just address the specifics instead of making odd remarks. Let's look at science, has there ever been a born male child, grown up now and able to bear children and nurse them. If yes, and it just happens in nature with humans, then we can flip our sex. If no, then the desire for being the opposite sex is just that, a desire.

                      It is very simple.

                      Why would a very young child have this "desire"?
                      ______________

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                      • #89
                        Originally posted by LARRY L View Post
                        Why does that matter, life is more than our own personal happiness. The Huston flood had no direct affect on me, yet I still want to see the people helped and not be in distress. With a 22 times higher rate of suicide with transgenders, they need real help too.

                        https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...RBgT1ppnbqNO9A
                        No answer, got it.

                        You profess to being Christian, yet you seem to never display Christian values.

                        Remember Jesus said: "it's none of your fooking business"

                        Comment


                        • #90
                          Originally posted by LARRY L View Post
                          Can you just address the specifics instead of making odd remarks. Let's look at science, has there ever been a born male child, grown up now and able to bear children and nurse them. If yes, and it just happens in nature with humans, then we can flip our sex. If no, then the desire for being the opposite sex is just that, a desire.

                          It is very simple.
                          How is this any concern of yours?

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