Harmony Central Forums
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.

OT:- Religion and psychotherapy

Collapse



X
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by gubu View Post

    It's a form of cultural brainwashing, unfortunately. Our Northern evangelicals are almost identical to those you have in the US, to my eyes. The inherent racism, homophobia, absolute surety in their own rightness etc. Add in a healthy dose of nationalist/imperialist jingoism, and the persecution complex brought about by the fact that civilised society has simply moved on, and it's a recipe for a truly reprehensible faction in public life, and in society in general.
    Yep and here there's the "culture wars" element. Evangelicals in the US and their socially conservative Republican allies are a backlash against the 60's counterculture, which to be fair, did have a lot of reprehensible effects of its own, which can still be seen. Reagan had a lot to do with catalyzing this movement, as you probably know. Not sure if you're old enough to have witnessed the punks first hand but Reagan and Thatcher were the focal point of a lot of the anger, as was Papa Bush a little later.

    Originally posted by gubu View Post
    Not that I'm lumping my therapist in with that. It's just that the ingrained prejudices up here still shock me at times. Particularly so in people who are so well educated and um, urbane, for want of a better word. I didn't grow up with that. Where I came from, religion was moot - we were all Irish, first and foremost.
    Yeah people are afraid and the religion is a bunker. But as I've argued on here before, religion and being educated aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. And it doesn't have to be for the worst - in many cases the religion just gets amalgamated into whatever the predominant values or social behaviors of the place and time are. It can go either way.

    And then there might be the class attitudes, if there are any. The evangelical churches in the South and their attitudes and behavior are different from the black churches obviously. I later saw and met many Christians who weren't the fundamentalist type - it's a big spectrum and you can't lump everyone into the same category. Unfortunately the worst sort get the most press.


    Originally posted by gubu View Post
    Which brings me to another interesting point. It seems that the damaging fundamentalist Catholicism here, to which you allude, is actually quite a recent phenomenon, and came about during and after the famine in the mid 19th century. Ireland seems to have been re-evangelised at this time by the Roman Church, with huge spiritual congresses, clerical recruitment drives, and a real drive to own the soul of the native Irish.
    Before that, it seems that the native Irish still had quite a liberal society, with the priestly class afforded no more power than they have today. Add in the ongoing struggle against the northern plantation, itself driven by the aforementioned evangelical puritanism, and the amount of social and political clout that Catholicism subsequently developed in the years leading up to the War of Independence, and the conditions were in place for the type of horrific abuses we saw here for much of the 20th century.

    I suppose we should be grateful that it didn't last too long.

    Interesting - I guess the Church responded to the desperation of the time and used it as a springboard for setting up a reactionary agenda. Not all that surprising really. When people are suffering and desperate, they'll go along with a lot of things they wouldn't do ordinarily. Nice for the Church to take advantage of the suffering and misery considering what its message is supposed to be. Though I guess it might have provided comfort as well.
    Yin/yang and all that.

    It also reminds me of what the British Empire did in India, i.e., use the existing caste system as a foundation for controlling the society. Apparently, it was more rigid and oppressive than the original. And of course the forced conversion of people who already have their own religious beliefs is another issue which we can solve in another critical HCPP thread!
    Last edited by Zig al-din; 09-06-2017, 10:54 AM.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Hoot Owl View Post
      So you believe in the Christian God, to clarify.
      What about all the other Gods? Is everyone else wrong? What makes you right? The culture you grew up in. Various cultures across the globe create their own religions and they create Gods for their religions.

      It's a sham.
      That's tough, because there are Christians who believe Christ is God. I don't believe that, nor did Yoshua (Jesus) ever say that. There are other Gods, as God (per Biblical writings) states that those who do not keep his Sabbath will not be his people, and that he will not be their God. 10 Tribes were not "lost"... When they stopped keeping the Sabbath, they lost their identity as Israelites. Also... If I'm not mistaking, the true Hebrew translation (Torah) reads "Gods created" not "God created". There is plurality there, and I don't see why it should be ignored.

      If you have never had a supernatural experience, I can see where you may not believe in Gods, Goddesses, spirits, etc... I have, and I was not envoking (yes, that's a word) a deity associated with Hebrew teachings. The texts I was using were Sumerian. As for Gods... To each his own.
      Last edited by MacFangus; 09-06-2017, 12:59 PM.

      Comment


      • Hoot Owl
        Hoot Owl commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks for the thought out response.

    • #33
      Originally posted by Zig al-din View Post

      Interesting - I guess the Church responded to the desperation of the time and used it as a springboard for setting up a reactionary agenda. Not all that surprising really. When people are suffering and desperate, they'll go along with a lot of things they wouldn't do ordinarily. Nice for the Church to take advantage of the suffering and misery considering what its message is supposed to be. Though I guess it might have provided comfort as well.
      Yin/yang and all that.
      Yes, many of the native Irish were looking for solace, during a famine that is becoming increasingly and broadly accepted as a deliberate act of genocide of the same order of magnitude as that in Armenia, Nazi Germany, Stalin's Russia, etc. The means may not have been as brutal, but the intent, and outcome, was identical.
      That said, the image I have of the Catholic Church in Ireland at this time is that of a leathery-winged demon sinking its claws into a nation of people that was already on its knees.

      Originally posted by Zig al-din View Post
      It also reminds me of what the British Empire did in India, i.e., use the existing caste system as a foundation for controlling the society. Apparently, it was more rigid and oppressive than the original. And of course the forced conversion of people who already have their own religious beliefs is another issue which we can solve in another critical HCPP thread!


      Putting the world to rights, one HCPP thread at a time!

      Of course, that's one of the things that made the British Empire so successful. Ensuring the continued fortunes of the native elites in the colonies, as long as they played ball with the Empire, while terrorising everybody else....
      flip the phase

      Comment


      • #34
        Originally posted by gubu View Post
        Ensuring the continued fortunes of the native elites in the colonies, as long as they played ball with the Empire, while terrorizing everybody else....
        well geez, that general principle still works world wide to this very day...

        __________________________________________________ ______________________________
        new sig currently under construction

        Comment


        • #35
          Therapist. Conjunctive of the and rapist, actual etymology sourced to ancient Greek, of course, and meaning "to minister to". I think I'd go to the bowery and get a 2nd opinion from a wino. The talk would probably do us both good.
          “There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.”
          John Adams, The Works Of John Adams, Second President Of The United States

          _____________________
          “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace in a continual state of alarm (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing them with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”
          H.L. Mencken

          Comment


          • #36
            Originally posted by Idunno View Post
            Therapist. Conjunctive of the and rapist, actual etymology sourced to ancient Greek, of course, and meaning "to minister to". I think I'd go to the bowery and get a 2nd opinion from a wino. The talk would probably do us both good.
            Except find the bartender the wino talks to. THAT'S your therapist.

            Comment













            Working...
            X